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Author | Topic: Exodus, Merneptah stela and israelites | |||||||||||||||||||||||
IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: This is just semantics and I'm certain a bore to anyone reading it. Basic comprehension says, I meant Israel has backup of its history with egypt, and the hiksos does not relate to this back-up. Still an issue for you?
quote: Its in the text - the same sentence you quoted. A new king arose, because the preists did not like the position given Joseph. This was a coup to restore the preist status, and this leads to the genocide of Israelite children.
quote: No, its not silly at all, and your remarks are not intelligent concerning ancient history and evidences. Firstly, the exact dates of this event are in dispute, which is not surprising or a negation of the event. The amarna and other finds are granite relics, discovered recently, and are not capable of changes while buried in the earth - these are now housed in museums. With the scrolls, that date is not when it was written: the scrolls represent a parcel of every book of the OT (except the book of esther), written 100 years apart the previous 1000 years, stretching from the Mosaic to psalms and prophetic scrolls, each identifying dates, names and places. There is nothing like this anywhere else, and it is not silly: it signifies multiple, ongoing historical credibility. The scrolls are also the same with today's OT, and the Septuagint of 300 BCE. In any case the scrolls, unchanged for 2300 years, represents the world's most undistorted document - excepting only stone etchings and relics which have been in the earth. IOW, there is no scripture or book which is unchanged for 2300 years. There is the book of the dead, but this is a prayer/epitaph, as opposed an historical document, and there is Hamurabi, which date is in much dispute: but that's about it. What's silly about it - the scrolls is also the first/oldest alphabetical books, and among 2 or 3 equivalent confirmations of ancient M/E history. The eight ruling chieftons of canaan, the moabites, the medianites and the philistines are foremost recordings of the OT.
quote: It does. The last para is an epitaph by Joshua affirming Moses' death.
quote: The 3M figure is derived from an approximation of the count of soldiers, covering sub-totals of the 13 tribes, names, gender and age breakdowns, and may also includes what are listed as 'a multitude of the nations'. IOW, it is listed in the mode of a bona fide scientific cencus. But 250 years later, we have another cencus, which is 6 M. I find no motive for fake figures here - it is not a blatant exaggeration as inferred, and listed with much specific details:
quote: quote: It is highly impressive - considering the time period and how many nations and wars traversed Egypt. Even one is sufficient. The oldest relic in India for example, is 2800 years old, so over 3000 years is among a small handful of history evidencing items.
quote: The reference to Edom is not of Israel's kings. Re exodus dates, this is at variance with scholras today, with the OT datings.But that egypt was in battle with Israel over 3000 years ago is not in dispute (the Israel stele). Here's some date assessments for you: quote: quote: I prefer to wait for some more conclusion from the ground for such an ancient period: we have not a single book here from elsewhere. It is not unusual that there are discrepensies here - one has to set this against unconfirmable datings even 2000 years later, like the NT. The situation is also frustrated by Israel being in dispersals and wars with its surrounds, virtually without pause. Most of Egypt's archives have been destroyed or plundered by Europe, and modern egypt destroyed at least one major Hebrew library.
quote: He's wrong. The ID is not determined solely by those factors.
quote: That would render the Israelites as the greatest masters of fictional literature - you are too generous in bestowing such merit. No one can do so and none have.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Its in the text - the same sentence you quoted. A new king arose, because the preists did not like the position given Joseph. This was a coup to restore the preist status, and this leads to the genocide of Israelite children. As I said, circular reasoning. Your argument of the authenticity of this bible claim is that it is in the Bible. You are essentially saying that the pharaoh did say this and it make the Bible awesome and the evidence you have that the pharaoh said this is from the Bible! This is utterly circular.
No, its not silly at all, and your remarks are not intelligent concerning ancient history and evidences. I am afraid you are the one who doesn’t really know what history is, and my remarks are completely in line with academic thought.
Firstly, the exact dates of this event are in dispute, which is not surprising or a negation of the event. How can the Bible be as supremely accurate as you say if so much is in dispute? However, the evidence available does negate the Book of Exodus if we take the Bible at face value, and there is not a single archaeologist who takes the Bible at face value today.
The amarna and other finds are granite relics, discovered recently, I wouldn’t consider 1887 to be very recent!
and are not capable of changes while buried in the earth - these are now housed in museums. Indeed, and the Amarna Letter are one of many sources that negate the Exodus.
With the scrolls, that date is not when it was written: the scrolls represent a parcel of every book of the OT (except the book of esther), written 100 years apart the previous 1000 years, stretching from the Mosaic to psalms and prophetic scrolls, each identifying dates, names and places. I am struggling to understand what this paragraph says, can you rephrase it please?
There is nothing like this anywhere else, and it is not silly: it signifies multiple, ongoing historical credibility. I’m sorry, but your view of the early books of the OT being historically sound is completely ignorant. NOTHING at all from the Book of Genesis through to the end of the Book of Judges has been verified by external evidence, this is a cold, hard fact.
The scrolls are also the same with today's OT, and the Septuagint of 300 BCE. Bull. There are different versions of Isaiah for a start at Qumran, and the Septuagint was ditched by Jews because it was such a bad translation.
In any case the scrolls, unchanged for 2300 years, represents the world's most undistorted document - The Amarna letters have remained undisturbed for 3400 years, and have never been tampered with, unlike your Bible.
excepting only stone etchings and relics which have been in the earth. And hundreds of thousands of texts from Egypt, Mesopotamia, Syria, and all over Palestine.
IOW, there is no scripture or book which is unchanged for 2300 years. This is just ludicrous. How many texts do you wish me to name that have been unchanged for over 3 thousand years?
There is the book of the dead, but this is a prayer/epitaph, as opposed an historical document, and there is Hamurabi, which date is in much dispute: but that's about it. You really do need to get up to speed on the available ancient texts mate. Here are a few you might wish to look up.Over 350 Amarna Letters (you forgot them), The Al Alakh Tablets, The Mari Texts, The Nuzi Texts, Mesopotamian Laws of Ur-Nammu, The Edict of Ammisaduqa, Akkadian Texts from Syria and Assyria including The Treaty between Niqmepa of Alalakh and Ir-im of Tunip, Treaty between Idrimi and Pilliya, Treaty of Esarhaddon with Baal of Tyre, Babylonian and Assyrian historical texts including The Mother of Nabonidus, The dedication of the Shamash Temple by YAhdun-lim, The banquest of Ashurnasirpal II, Sumerian Hymns including, Hymn to Ninurta as God of Vegetation, Hymn to Ninurta as God of Wrath, Hymnal prayer of Enheduanna, I could go on and on. In the grand scheme of things the Hebrew Bible is quite young. What's silly about it - the scrolls is also the first/oldest alphabetical books, and among 2 or 3 equivalent confirmations of ancient M/E history. The eight ruling chieftons of canaan, the moabites, the medianites and the philistines are foremost recordings of the OT. Where are you getting this garbage from?
It does. The last para is an epitaph by Joshua affirming Moses' death. Where does the Bible state that Moses wrote the Book of Exodus, and where does it state that Joshua wrote anything? How did Moses know that 400 years after his death there would be an Israelite monarchy?
The 3M figure is derived from an approximation of the count of soldiers, covering sub-totals of the 13 tribes, names, gender and age breakdowns, and may also includes what are listed as 'a multitude of the nations'. I know how it is arrived at, but no one today takes these figures literally, it is impossible for 70 people to turn into 3 million in 430 years. Plus the archaeological evidence does not support a group of this size in Egypt during the second millennium BCE.
IOW, it is listed in the mode of a bona fide scientific cencus. But 250 years later, we have another cencus, which is 6 M. LOL, Jesus mate where on earth were these 6 million hiding.
I find no motive for fake figures here - it is not a blatant exaggeration as inferred, and listed with much specific details: The thing is bud, the word for ”thousand’ doesn’t necessarily have to read ”thousand’, the word eleph can mean clan or tent, makes much more sense.
It is highly impressive - considering the time period and how many nations and wars traversed Egypt. Even one is sufficient. One out of forty is highly impressive! LOL, Jesus mate do you want to buy a genuine piece of Jesus’ cross?
The oldest relic in India for example, is 2800 years old, so over 3000 years is among a small handful of history evidencing items. How on Earth do you come up these things! What about relics from Harappa, or Mohenjo-daro?
The reference to Edom is not of Israel's kings. Yes it is.
Re exodus dates, this is at variance with scholras today, with the OT datings. So the awesome book is not clear on the date? Which date do you go with?
But that egypt was in battle with Israel over 3000 years ago is not in dispute (the Israel stele). It is in dispute, no one has ever proved that the Israel of the Merneptah Stele and the Israel of the Bible are one and the same.
I prefer to wait for some more conclusion from the ground What do you mean ”more conclusion from the ground’, how much more do you need before you fall into line with the facts?
we have not a single book here from elsewhere. Yes we do, you even mention the Amarna Letters yourself. Not to mention the wealth of Egytian texts.
He's wrong. The ID is not determined solely by those factors. No he isn’t wrong, it is completely in line with all of the inscription. Tell me, was Biran correct to say that this is an unequivocal reading given that so much is missing?
That would render the Israelites as the greatest masters of fictional literature - you are too generous in bestowing such merit. Well not really, because when you place the Bible into Near eastern historical context, the Bible is a real mess. The Book of Exodus isn’t that impressive, it’s got some nice tales in it, but they are camp fire tales, myths and legends with no real history there. Brian
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
no. subtitles are stupid.
abe. i think that subtitle is still appropriate anyways because he's not even capable of reading english. Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
How else would you know where Abraham came from - it is the first recording of the city of Ur. What you disregard is, Judaism and Israel did not come from Ur, but was established in Canaan, by Israelite canaanites, two generations later, via Jacob oh wow, two generations. that's like 40 years. i'm so impressed with the vast difference in people there. oh right people lived 800 million years back then and it's all crap. i never said that judaism came from iraq; i said the people who became the jews came from iraq. and if i recall correctly, issac married a relative and jacob married a relative, purposely. so whatever cannanite link is by location only.
The egyptian's main claim to fame was their slave asset; this is not in dispute. no, their main claim to fame is their fancy buldings and god kings. every documentary i've seen on egypt since i was 2 has said that those buildings could not have been built by unskilled slave labor. and it took the israelites how long to build a great big building? if they could have done it before, don't you think they would have?
The Israelites built two cities there: you are quoting the texts selectively, choosing what suits. no, i'm not quoting anything. i'm referencing common knowledge from the real world, you know, outside your dusty old book where people tell the truth.
It is ubsurdity to claim the israelites just walked out with a superpower's treasures and yet it's in your dusty old book.
I like the use of 'just' when describing the first recording of genocide. i wasn't describing it, asshole. don't talk to me about recognizing the justice or injustice of genocide. also, try reading. it's amazing what people are actually saying when you get your head out of itself. what i was suggesting is that the murder of jewish babies does not justify the murder or entire peoples by the jews.
This occured when the canaanites barred entry to Israel, and proclaimed genocide too: this is missing from your accusation. cite it.
'ALL THAT WAS EVIL IN THE SIGHT OF THE LRD DID THEY (THE CANAANITES) DO' like buttseks and eating lobster and cutting their hair?
Why did two of the eight canaanite kingdoms side with the Joshua and battle the other six? real politik.next? The OT is an exacting, intergrated document - and requires correct comprehension.
maybe it requires correct comprehension to be described as integrated or exacting. i want what you're smoking. it would make life easier.
Its the world's most honest document hahahahhahahahahhaahahaha
Further, in that time, wars for land dominance were always faught with the anihilation of the other side, because of a superstition premise; this was normal fare, and not to be confused with conquering another nation for slaves.
so because everyone else was doing it it was ok for the people of god to do it? wtf? regardless of 'common practice' bullshit, genocide is never ok. you make me sick.
Yes, jews were in all these places, but did not steal anyone's lands: that's the point. there were jews in tasmania? when? is it cause the tasmanians were killed? are all victims of genocide jews now?
Not true. This refuge was saught when medevial christianity... the ghettos in poland were built and inhabitted by the jews by choice.
???
open your newspaper lately?
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Reding Junior Member (Idle past 6107 days) Posts: 29 From: Belgium Joined: |
quote: To me it makes sence that part of the findings correspond with the scriptures because it contains historical elements/locations. Wether that's sufficient to construct a reliable history is highly disputed lately. Fundamentalists are "lucky" to have the luxury of constructing theories with the vast amount of references in the scriptures and if you're familiar with our keen way of finding an explenation for absolutely everything than i'm sure you're prepared to give in to how lucky you are. The truth and facts can be mixed with exaggerations and lies. On top of that your truth is just an isolated truth, it is not an absolute truth. To claim otherwise would be just the same as saying that other religions (within or out of christianity) are flat out wrong. Why do you have to be right? I'm not sure of your assumption but certain relics and textual finds can excist on its own and can have a different story than written in the scriptures. It's a possibilty, why not?
quote: ....and it was a very long history, 400+ years does say something. With Egypt being a superpower and having the loyalty of canaanite leaders, their strongholds and their almost obsessive way of controlling things, the most stupid thing the israelites could have done is finding a refuge in Canaan. I'm pretty sure the hebrew knew Canaan then.....hypothetically speaking. I would hardly call the hebrew language original, remember the Akkadic language...
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi,
Ever wonder why the Israelites never recorded this defeat by Merneptah? Ever wonder why no Egyptians are mentioned when Joshua claims to have conquered all of Palestine? These are fables. Brian.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Again, I said nothing like how you put it. The sentence was to correct you over another point, not as proof of history, but that the sentence was about Pharoah and the hebrews, not the Hiksos. Proof cannot come only from texts.
quote: There is not a single archeologist who gives more credence to any other scripture - even those 2500 years more recent. The fact is, there is no peoples today who can identify their history with a 3000 year reference proven by archeologists. The rejection of the Israel stele from Egypt only displays your own personal bias: the reference to Israel has no other options considering the descriptions. This stele is written in another language, which was not alphabetical, and accepted by scholars. If your disputing the Hebrews were in Egypt, then say so - what else can one gather from your posts? You are even disputing the Tel Dal and Solomon history, inferring that some 3000 years of history was faked in numerous books, centuries apart, and which form a thread of continuiy. I've never seen such an occurence elsewhere: try to fake your ancestry for ten generations and see what it involves - you won't even get names and places right, even in this PC age. Archeologists use 'NAMES' as the foremost means of ancient historical verifications - because these are true to its spacetime. If I posted 50 scholars accepting the Tel Dal find, you won't be impressed - so I wont.
quote: Exactly the reverse is the case. These predate Israel, and thus it makes the absence here more credible, while giving more credence to the egyptian stele which DOES mention Israel.
quote: I mean, if the scrolls are dated upto 250 BCE, it evidences a much earlier history in its recounting: this falls into the 2nd temple period, and after the war with the greeks (Hanuka) and the Septuagint date of 300 BCE. Logic says, if the Septuagint date predates the scrolls, everything in this parcel was known previously. There are coins and relics found from the 1st temple period, which predates the Septuagint and the babylonian destruction of Jerusalem. The scrolls evidence a predating history.
quote: Both the interaction with ancient Egypt, and the Israelite rule in Canaan - the entire vocation of the OT - are not in dispute. Some 20 ancient nations, and many routes and mapings have been verified. Today's Jordan was ancient Moab, and Ruth was a Moabitis who converted to become an Israelite - while this is not hard proof, it is an evidence of a verifiable history. Mount Nebo, in today's Jordan, is a popular tourist attraction for its grand views across canaan - first described in Dueteronomy as Moses' last stand: co-incidence or a re-write? While Moses is not a proven historical figure as yet - there is volumous evidence of the OT narratives. I'm not sure to what extent your rejection goes - nor how you see the Israelites securing the land of Canaan, a principle ally of Egypt. The latter becomes more focused when you reject even the small cencus figures - it means an even smaller group prevailed!
quote: Its not regarded a bad translation: Josephus sites this and many scholars do so too - but this does not negate the translation even by your rejectionist premise. It means the Greeks, a superpower at the time, translated it, and this told of an ancient history well before 300 bce. The greeks went to great lenghts to ensure a good translation, applied intelligent verse and chapter indexes, and begat their ahpha-beta alphabetics from the Hebrew alef-bet (Josephus docs) - evidencing the ancient status of the OT; we also have burial sites in Iraq (Babylon) of sages recorded in the OT. The Septuagint translation was requested by Alexander upon his visit of the Jerusalem temple: [Alexander in the Jerusalem Temple] [The great conqueror esteemed the Jews and their history, allowing them to remain autonomous. In his celebrated arrival to the Temple in Jerusalem, he is received with great honor by a hailing congregation parade, and the Priests proclaim their first born sons will be named Alexander, to be forever honored as a Jewish name. Alexander’s request - subsequent to an oracle - was that the five books of Moses (”Torah’/Heb) be translated into the Greek language, marking the first translation of the Hebrew bible] 7/14 2. THE SEPTUAGINT BIBLE. [The First translation of the Hebrew Bible] The Greeks initiated the Torah (later referred to as The Old Testimony) as a worldly manifesto, harkening to its laws of Democracy (”Let the Majority Decide’) and Equal Justice for all. The Greeks also begat their Alpha-Betical writings from the Hebrew Aleph-Bet, adding intelligent numberings to the Hebrew Bible’s verses and paragraphs, and separating the vowels and numerals from the world’s first alphabetical books. The Greeks also renamed the Torah as The Septuagint (Five Books/Ger.). Here, osmosis of two great mindsets and beliefs occurred, resulting in an Olympian battle of traditions, religions and minds - each vying for the torch which would illuminate humanity. Here, Paganism clashed with Monotheism, Zeus confronted Yahweh, and a miniscule Middle-Eastern Tribal Nation begat Centre stage beside the world’s most Olympian Super Power.
quote: Just ONE book, with identifiable historical stats will do. A book is a continueing narrative with multiple pages. This excludes tomb stones, commercial reciepts and stone etchings (amarna tablets). I would like to see something resembling say a 25% of the Mosaic, and this need not be alphabetical or in great prose - just historical, with dates or periods. Thus I say, there is no equivalence of the OT anyplace, and for sure without follow-up ancient writings which form a thread of continuity. Don't bother to look is my advice.
quote: I know most of these, and they predate Israel. These are not books either. The OT is the first alphabetical and historical books - itself an important factor.
quote: There are some 20 nations recorded in the OT - that's where from. The Moabites and philistines are foremost recorded here.
quote: That Moses is the author is in the texts; that Joshua wrote the final sentences is from ancient sages' commentary.
quote: You have this confused. Moses only wrote the five books; the rest is post-Torah (Pentatuch) writings. The book of Kings was writen much later, after the Judges period.
quote: It need not be taken literally; it is an improvised approximation only. The 3M figure is not stated in the texts.
quote: This is some 300 years after the exodus period. Aside from the texts, I have no other proof of it, nor do i see any reason to find a deliberate faking here: it serves no motive, and generally the OT does not shy away of negatives.
quote: No, alef by itself does not mean a 1000, nor can you impress that the texts were not understandable for 1000s of years: there is the Hebrew calendar which had to be calculated for numerous festivals every year. These guys knew how to read and write better than anyone!
quote: Exactly, this is one of the oldest finds, which makes the OT among a small handful of items of ancient historical items, is my point.
quote: Edom does not represent Israel; it is regarded the ancestry of some european nations.
quote: Its not clear comprehensively, and not from the current knowledge of discoveries.
quote: I don't wait for proof of David to Rome, but I would like to see more evidences which further prove those items which affirm what has been disputed by some, as continuity, and judging by the consistant discoveries emerging, I think much will be verified in the near future. I am satisfied that the Israelites were in Egypt (Exodus gives the first contemporary diet of ancient egypt, and that the nile never runs dry), and that they ruled canaan for a 1000 years till 586BCE, and continued again after a 70 year break till the Roman invasion. i would like to see something from the Judges period, specially the battle faught by deborah.
quote: There are 1000s of such bits, but no historical books: the OT marks a variant in kind than degree here.
quote: Then you must show me some other mythical books with the same stats. The book of exodus is pervasive of dates, numbers, nations, wars, and names - even containing aerial map depictions of the terrain, and distances between towns and routes. The Egyptian to canaan coastal highway (The Kings Road) is first mentioned here. The first recording of the ancient egyptian language, transliterated into Hebrew, is the first two opening words of the Ten Commandments, namely 'Anno Chi' ('I am'); these are the only two words not in hebrew, and appears directed at the pharoah, who spoke no hebrew, yet proclaimed himself divine. he must have been greatly chagrined by the Hebrews!
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
even containing aerial map depictions of the terrain it was made from a photo taken with the huge aerial camera that jesus gave them. you can see it on the windows 95 cds.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote:I don't think so. The failures of the israelites with other nations is amply recorded, signifying a credibility here. That Joshua was unable to defeat other nations in Canaan, is well recorded, especially concerning the philistines who remained undefeated till David. On the other hand, if the israelites prevailed in leaving Egypt, it puts PAID why this superpower could not save the canaanites - and the Israelites did enter canaan and rule it, even establishing Jerusalem on a hilltop as the capital, and finally prevailing over the philistines as well - despite Egypt?
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
You have this confused. Moses only wrote the five books; the rest is post-Torah (Pentatuch) writings. The book of Kings was writen much later, after the Judges period. um. he was referring to genesis 36:31 which is in the torah and is allegedly written by moses.
Gen 36:31 And these [are] the kings that reigned in the land of Edom, before there reigned any king over the children of Israel.
explain how moses knew that 400 years later there would be kings in israel. i don't recall there being discussion in genesis or exodus about god revealing the future to moses past his time in the desert.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Aerial mapping descriptions: this refers to the nations and routes around Egypt to canaan, specially in Numbers, where the Israelites had to take the route around Moab (Jordan) and enter Canaan via another route - when thoroughfare was denied them. The NT does not contain such aerial descriptions. You'd need a compass and much more to travel from Egypt to Canaan today - via a path other than the coastal one.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
You'd need a compass and much more to travel from Egypt to Canaan today - via a path other than the coastal one. i'm sure there's a highway with signs and no need for a compass. Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Sure. The bus leaves Goshen every hour for Canaan, which is a 40 year journey, or one can board the express train via Mount Sinai for a 100 extra shekels - just follow the signs. Carry bottled water - in case the wells are dry.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Moses is here referring to Israel having no kings - when all other nations did. I've no idea why anyone needs to be responded to when they have a comprhension problem with the simplest example of a texts. Nor that anyone should pose such questions, while appearing so arrogant of debating in a science thread: can one speak science when their comprehension is nil? I held back to see if *ANYONE ELSE HERE* (Hello?!) would correct them - but no such luck. These are an exacting, intergrated, mathematical texts of an ancient period - and should be examined respectfully, as one would a hedy, physics equation. Esau was not 400 years after Moses, but 400 years before. Esau was the grandson of Abraham, and son of Isaac. The quoted verse is presented with 'THESE ARE THE GENERATIONS OF ESAU' - a preamble to guide the reader in its context, with further indications in 43 verses of names which are not mistakable what generation is being discussed - with names of Ishmael, Abraham's son ('Basemath Ishmael's daughter, sister of Nebaioth'); the passage includes almost a 100 ancient names, true to its spacetime, detailing a thread which can be tracked to many nations (Esau = Edom) and lands. Here are selected verses which shows your error of textual comprehension:
quote: Whew! Mercy! Its become so that its not science anymore but a neo radicalised dogmatic 'religious science'. Its exactly like a different religious group hell bent of their beliefs. Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given. Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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Reding Junior Member (Idle past 6107 days) Posts: 29 From: Belgium Joined: |
quote: to which failures and how many of all the events are you referring to? I would need to study more but i'm sure others are asking the same, would be curious to know your references, although i'm aware of the biblical stories...
quote: why would the israelites fight a superpower to leave to practically another part of Egypt under the umbrella of freedom? A "nation" that dumb shouldn't be a match for a superpower! Besides that how would you know the israelites "entered" canaan as opposed to being nomads who grew within and already excisted in Canaan?
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