Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Childhood Vaccinations – Necessary or Overkill?
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 264 of 327 (427036)
10-09-2007 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Kitsune
10-09-2007 1:30 PM


Re: Measles Outbreak in Antivax Population
From this article or March 2006: WHO
quote:
Global deaths due to measles fell by 48%, from 871 000 in 1999 to an estimated 454 000 in 2004, thanks to major national immunization activities and better access to routine childhood immunization, the agencies said. These measles mortality data, calculated by WHO, are the latest available.
Measles doesn't seem that harmless to me.
Admittedly, measles rates were highest in Africa as you mentioned but the infection and death rates decreased the most in that continent (60% according to the article). Do you think the general nutrition and sanitation increased greatly for 60% of the poor in that 5 years or could it actually be due to the increased vaccination rate among the population?
LindaLou writes:
If someone chooses not to vaccinate, they need to make sure they take steps to live healthily.
And the general sub-Saharan Africa population accomplishes this in what way?
LindaLou writes:
No one knows what injecting...and no studies have been conducted with vaccinated and nonvaccinated populations.
Lets try This article
quote:
Whooping cough is re-emerging nationwide and youngsters in states that permit parents to easily opt out of vaccinating their children are at increased risk from the disease,...
I guess that study is going on as we speak. Unless you are able to show that those particular states have poorer nutrition levels for their populace or that parents who opt out of vaccinations tend to undernourish their children, I think we can rule out varying nutrition levels as having a profound effect on this particular study.
How about here in a single town in Indiana. Note that almost all of those infected were unvaccinated.
Of course you are saying that the disease would not cause death if the nutrition of the patient is good. However, you can't rule out that these patients survived because there were good hospitals and doctors around. But what if none of the people in that little Indiana town had been vaccinated. Now how would the medical establishment deal with more than 30% of the population having measles? It is likely that some of those would be health care professionals.
LindaLou writes:
As I have said, the risk is not zero, but it is not zero for vaccination either.
As I am sure you have heard before, this is risk verses benefit problem. Risks to individual and population health are higher if people are unvaccinated than they are if vaccinated. This assessment is supported by numerous studies. Although citing these studies does little to console an individual parent who's child is adversely affected by a vaccination, it is still a good arguing point in support of continuing mandatory vaccinations for children attending public school.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Kitsune, posted 10-09-2007 1:30 PM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by molbiogirl, posted 10-09-2007 3:06 PM LinearAq has not replied
 Message 269 by Kitsune, posted 10-09-2007 5:12 PM LinearAq has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 275 of 327 (427183)
10-10-2007 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Kitsune
10-09-2007 5:12 PM


Vaccinations for public health?
LindaLou writes:
What's more, I am not calling for an end to vaccination, or even for people not to vaccinate their own children. I am explaining why I made my personal choice and why I believe that choice ought to exist.
Why I believe the choice should not exist is because a parent choosing to avoid vaccinations for their child puts my children at risk too. Some vaccinations cannot be given before a certain age so my child who is too young to get vaccinated can be exposed to their children who should have been. However, those parents would rather listen to scare tactics from people on the internet who want to sell a book or a "natural remedy". Can you say Kevin Trudeau is a bullshit artist? I knew that you could!
LindaLou writes:
Were you aware that a strain of whooping cough caused by bordetella parapertussis causes the disease in 40% of laboratory-confirmed cases, and that there is no vaccine for this strain? You can read about it in this article from Medscape Today. And this article explains that there is no easy way to confirm the diagnosis of whooping cough, whether the cause be pertussis or parapertussis.
OhhhKayyy? Are you saying that because there is another disease with the same or similar symptoms that we should not vaccinate against a disease that we know we can prevent?
I am confused at the inclusion of this statement as support for anything that we have been discussing.
Rightly questioning my assertion, LindaLou writes:
What leads you to believe that 30% of the population of a town would be devastated by measles at one time?
The report on the Indiana town stated that 32% of the unvaccinated students that first came in contact with patient zero were infected that day. More people were stricken as secondary and tertiary infections so the 30% was rather conservative and warranted based on the wider range of uncertainty when dealing with a sample group that small. Molbiogirl also showed you stats on pre-vaccination measles infection spread.
I guess we could just suspend vaccinations completely and let evolution take over in that area. We would wind up with a stronger more disease resistant human race. The cost in human lives seems a little high to me especially since most would be children. However, it could be used as a means of population control.
Better yet, the government could just make all vaccinations voluntary. That way the gullibility gene could be minimized in the American population.
Edited by LinearAq, : Fixed the last sentence to be less ambiguous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Kitsune, posted 10-09-2007 5:12 PM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Percy, posted 10-10-2007 10:53 AM LinearAq has not replied
 Message 287 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 9:31 AM LinearAq has not replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 316 of 327 (427416)
10-11-2007 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by Kitsune
10-11-2007 10:30 AM


Re: Vaccinations for public health?
LindaLou writes:
I don't know why my link didn't work. This one should. It is the list of vaccine ingredients on the CDC website.
I read the list of ingredients.
How about mine:
1. Had any biscuits lately? Baking Powder...Sodium Aluminum Sulphate NaAl(SO4)2, Cream of tartar KHC4H4O6, Baking Soda NaHCO3...watch out for that Aluminum and that Potassium.
2. Take multivitamines? Aluminum, Potassium, Copper, Selenium, Chromium, Molybdenum, Iodine and others
Let's not forget Dihydro Oxide that has been shown to cause hundreds of deaths a year in the US yet remains completely unregulated as to the amount that can be put into your food.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 10:30 AM Kitsune has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by molbiogirl, posted 10-11-2007 12:00 PM LinearAq has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024