Evolution is a religion. Creation is a religion.

ey

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Originally posted by Christian1:

Why do you insist that I prove my belief? When others ask you and other evolutionist's to prove evolution, why is thier answer so incomplete and full of more beliefs? My proof is in the bible, if you want specific proof, ask Dr. Hovind, heh, if you dare or read the bible which others have taken the time to study. Dr. Hovind is much better at specifics than I am. And the bible has already been written. If you don't believe him, the bible, and God, why don't you prove me, Dr. Hovind, and the bible wrong? And I do urge you and other evolutionist's to be truthful and not work around the questions as though they are not there. I would like an answer on if we evolved, why are we not evolving? If it is science, why can't you prove it? Do I need to prove that the Earth is there, here, everywhere? Do I need to prove that we exist? If my beliefs are wrong, why do so many people swear and take the lords name in vein? Who is your lord? I can't rationalize that "we JUST exist" or "evolved from nothing", there had to be something not nothing. If you give nothing, you get nothing, that is a fact.

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go christian!!! woooo.
look at it this way evolutionists, God and the bible have been around in all of civilized society and are accepted as fact, we dont need evidence; you need to disprove it, good luck with that (contradictions in the bible dont prove anything other than bad story telling). Evolution is very new theory and has to be proven and still fit in with the facts already layed down, it also cant be made on any assumptions or guesses. it has to be 100% pure evidence otherwise it isnt science, even according to yourselves. we dont really need to show whats wrong with evolution, but where being nice and showing you the faults.------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi

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Originally posted by Christian1:
Those of you who believe in God and Evolution should watch Dr. Hovind's videos which can be found on the "money link" or even read and understand the bible.

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DR. Hovind??!!You really believe that he's a doctor? If so, do you have any free cash and are you interested in some real estate down near Miami?SLD

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Originally posted by sld:
DR. Hovind??!!

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You really believe that he's a doctor? If so, do you have any free cash and are you interested in some real estate down near Miami?

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SLD

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Thats true...Kent Hovind did receive a PHD in some barn school somewhere in Florida. A Doctor of what exactly,i dont really know...probably of theology or something to that effect.

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Originally posted by KingPenguin:
ey go christian!!! woooo.
look at it this way evolutionists, God and the bible have been around in all of civilized society and are accepted as fact, we dont need evidence; you need to disprove it, good luck with that (contradictions in the bible dont prove anything other than bad story telling).

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Penguin, Australian aboriginal creation myths have concievably been around twice as long as the biblical stories. Does that mean that we should accept creation of the world by the the rainbow serpent as the default scientific explanation and wait for you to prove the bible is the better scientific explanation? Or how about the Epic of Gilgamesh? It predates the bible and has aflood story as well. Should that be the default science textbook?BTW, I don't recall the bible having acceptance in ancient Egypt, Ancient China, Babylon, Ancient Greece, Aztecs and Mayan civilisations. Does "civilised society" only mean one's in which the bible has been accepted? Bit circular?

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Originally posted by KingPenguin:
ey go christian!!! woooo.
look at it this way evolutionists, God and the bible have been around in all of civilized society and are accepted as fact, we dont need evidence; you need to disprove it, good luck with that (contradictions in the bible dont prove anything other than bad story telling). Evolution is very new theory and has to be proven and still fit in with the facts already layed down, it also cant be made on any assumptions or guesses. it has to be 100% pure evidence otherwise it isnt science, even according to yourselves. we dont really need to show whats wrong with evolution, but where being nice and showing you the faults.

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Very nice indeed. Only you are not succeeding at dismanteling evolution theory...you're just making it stronger by pointing out the flaws so they can be adressed. Thanks a million for that.
Oh and another thing...care to know how long people actually believed as fact that the earth was flat and stationary and that it was the sun that revolved around it? This was accepted "fact" by civilised societies for thousands of years before Galileo came along and set the record strait for everyone. And there are still people who cling to this notion to this day(ex:the flat earth society) even though its allready been demonstrated PHYSICALY that the earth is a sphere so i guess some of you dark ages refugees will likely continue to hold on to your literal belief in the fairy tale book of your choice while the rest of us will move forward in a futur of enlightened science. And that futur is edging ever so closer...just this week,they announced that scientists had just discovered evidence of macroevolution,something ALL creationists claimed was not possible in a world created by God in 6 days 6152 years ago. Oh well...

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Originally posted by Christian1:
If you have proof of evolution "a scientific experiment, in a complete form with facts and without doubts or other theories" I'm going to tell you where you can get $250,000 for it. Please visit http://www.drdino.com to collect.

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Here's a challenge for you. Could be a lot simpler one too. All you need to do is find a certain bible quote and a world renown skeptic will put it on the masthead of the The Skeptical Review:

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Produce an Old Testament statement that prophesies of the resurrection of the Messiah in language too clear to be misunderstood, and I will publish it on the masthead of *The Skeptical Review* from now on as long as this paper continues to be published. Produce an Old Testament prophecy of the resurrection of the Messiah on the third day, and I will immediately cease publication of *The Skeptical Review.* I would think that this is an offer that loyal inerrantists would find hard to refuse.

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The above offer is from Farrell Till, editor of the Skeptical Review and was made in 1996 - to date it has not been met. See if you can be the first.The point is anybody can make such psuedo challenges, and the funny thing is none of them ever get claimed. In the 1800's a Scottish Flat Earth Society member made a 10,000 Pound offer if anybody could prove that the world was round. A prominent scientist claimed to have proved it and demanded the money. Eventually he sued in court to recover the prize. He never collected. Does that prove that the earth is flat?With respect to Dr. Dino's prize, I wonder why he isn't willing to submit the judging of his prize to a court of law, or an independent panel where both sides get to pick their arbitrators? I would think that the UC San Diego biology team's recent discoveries proving the possibility of macro-evolution and how it could easily come about in the transformation of crustacean to insect should be significant proof for anyone with an ability to reason.SLD

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Originally posted by Christian1:
My religion is proved over and over and over and over and over and over . . . .

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Really, says who?SLD

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Originally posted by sld:
Really, says who?

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SLD

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quick question quick reply. says 2000 years of christians and even more years of judaism.------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi

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Originally posted by KingPenguin:
quick question quick reply. says 2000 years of christians and even more years of judaism.

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Oh...so your reply is 4000 years of superstition? well thats nice.

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Originally posted by KingPenguin:
ey go christian!!! woooo.
look at it this way evolutionists, God and the bible have been around in all of civilized society and are accepted as fact, we dont need evidence; you need to disprove it, good luck with that (contradictions in the bible dont prove anything other than bad story telling). Evolution is very new theory and has to be proven and still fit in with the facts already layed down, it also cant be made on any assumptions or guesses. it has to be 100% pure evidence otherwise it isnt science, even according to yourselves. we dont really need to show whats wrong with evolution, but where being nice and showing you the faults.

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Umm...no. God might have (unproven and unprovable) but the bible has been around for something less than 2,000 years...civilization (ie., civilized society) has been around for around 10,000 years. That's your first error.Your second error is that the bible is accepted as fact. It is accepted as fact by a comparatively small portion of the world's population, and as literal fact by an even smaller.And you (again) completely misunderstand science. Science is about theorising over observed facts. The fact of evolution has been proven time and time again. Sorry. Evolution is science; creationism is religion. Check any dictionary for a definition of religion, any science text for a definition of science.

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Originally posted by KingPenguin:
ey go christian!!! woooo.
look at it this way evolutionists, God and the bible have been around in all of civilized society and are accepted as fact, we dont need evidence; you need to disprove it, good luck with that (contradictions in the bible dont prove anything other than bad story telling). Evolution is very new theory and has to be proven and still fit in with the facts already layed down, it also cant be made on any assumptions or guesses. it has to be 100% pure evidence otherwise it isnt science, even according to yourselves. we dont really need to show whats wrong with evolution, but where being nice and showing you the faults.

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LOL!!!! If I asserted that the sun was pushed around by a galactic goat, it would be incumbent on me to provide some sort of evidentiary support, non? Same goes for the bible. Christian 1 claimed it has been proven over & over & over, so I merely ask him to back up his claims.I assert the universe was born out of a sneeze of the Galactic Goat. Disprove it. Or would that be a silly thing to ask?While your at it, you could disprove all the other religions, norse mythology, babylonian, egyptian etc.....Perhaps you could actually reply with some substance for once, & tackle the questions (1-4) in post 3,11, & 14. I've posted them 3 times & not got a response from Christian 1, in all probability he has nothing of substance to add, either. Continually bleating "the bible is my proof", without demonstrating the nature of that proof, doesn't do much to convince.Mark------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

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[This message has been edited by mark24, 02-13-2002]

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[This message has been edited by mark24, 02-13-2002]

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Originally posted by KingPenguin:
ey go christian!!! woooo.
look at it this way evolutionists, God and the bible have been around in all of civilized society and are accepted as fact, we dont need evidence; you need to disprove it, good luck with that (contradictions in the bible dont prove anything other than bad story telling). Evolution is very new theory and has to be proven and still fit in with the facts already layed down, it also cant be made on any assumptions or guesses. it has to be 100% pure evidence otherwise it isnt science, even according to yourselves. we dont really need to show whats wrong with evolution, but where being nice and showing you the faults.

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If there is 'bad story telling' in the bible, that means that the
story tellers could NOT have been touched by God and writing at
His direction. If that is the case then the Bible is JUST
a story ... so why believe it.Proof (if you excuse the lay use of the word) of the Bible cannot
be attributed to its divine origin. Mainly because many of those
who question it do NOT believe in that divinity.BUT if the one God was responsible for the Bible's words, and
they are true ... they should be independently verifiable. I opened
a thread asking for Independent Historical verification of Biblical
events ... with a reason why ... but I've had NO TAKERS.

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Originally posted by LudvanB:

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Lud, I can answer you ALL in one simple statement. I believe in creation, THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME RIGHT. And proabilities don't make Evolution (a belief) science. The most rediculas part of your argument is that you WILL NOT admit that Evolution is a religion and not science.Again, Science is used to test and observe. Evoulion does not do this, Evolution is a belief, the same as creation.Oh, I will answer one question specifically. If others want to learn about creation and see it's proof look out side. The earth did not just "poof" and appear, someone or something created it. Look around you. The house or building you are sitting in and the computer you are typing did not just "poof" and appear, someone or something created it. Look at how perfect these things are. These perfections do not happen by chance. Imagine if someone told you that there was a hurricane and then "poof" the gods of evolution gave a brand new p4 2ghz with 256mb of ram and a 24x CD-RW. I'm sorry, that is how rediculas I think your belief is when you call it science.One more point, "poof" is a evolutionist's favorite word. "poof" sound alot like MAGIC!The bible's divine intervention is not something "I" can prove. I wasn't there. Nor were you to prove aginst it. But oh yeah, I forgot, I'm not calling my belief......SCIENCE.

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Originally posted by Christian1:
Lud, I can answer you ALL in one simple statement. I believe in creation, THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME RIGHT. And proabilities don't make Evolution (a belief) science. The most rediculas part of your argument is that you WILL NOT admit that Evolution is a religion and not science.

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Again, Science is used to test and observe. Evoulion does not do this, Evolution is a belief, the same as creation.

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Oh, I will answer one question specifically. If others want to learn about creation and see it's proof look out side. The earth did not just "poof" and appear, someone or something created it. Look around you. The house or building you are sitting in and the computer you are typing did not just "poof" and appear, someone or something created it. Look at how perfect these things are. These perfections do not happen by chance. Imagine if someone told you that there was a hurricane and then "poof" the gods of evolution gave a brand new p4 2ghz with 256mb of ram and a 24x CD-RW. I'm sorry, that is how rediculas I think your belief is when you call it science.

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One more point, "poof" is a evolutionist's favorite word. "poof" sound alot like MAGIC!

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The bible's divine intervention is not something "I" can prove. I wasn't there. Nor were you to prove aginst it. But oh yeah, I forgot, I'm not calling my belief......SCIENCE.

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Sorry, but evolution is a science, not a religion. Evolution observes, theorises, predicts, observes, revises theories...and so forth. This is precisely what a science is supposed to do. On the other hand, a religion...religion Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
3. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
4. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
5. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.Now, in what way does evolution satisfy the above definition? It doesn't. Oh, you can do what creationists who maintain this line normally do when confronted with an actual dictionary definition, and claim that evolution qualifies as a religion under definition #5 - which, technically, it does. Of course, so does bowling, or fly fishing, or any other activity humanly possible. If that's what you mean - that evolution is a 'religion' in the same way that bowling is a 'religion', then you're right. But I doubt that that's what you mean. And if it's not, then sorry, the dictionary does not support your position. Unless you are using the word to mean 'an activity pursued with zeal', evolution is not a religion. Sorry.Oh, and 'poof' isn't an evolutionists favourite word, either.And, sorry again, but 'creation' and 'creationism' are two completely distinct things. You mention things like the earth, houses, buildings...none of those things have anything to do with evolution. Two of them are built by humans, and the third (the earth) was, possibly, created by a creator of some sort - the origin of the earth is the domain of astrophysics. Again, it has nothing to do with evolution, so I don't quite know why you mentioned it.By the way...I don't mean to sound patronising, but have you actually studied evolution? Know anything about it? How it works? How it (supposedly) makes things go 'poof'?

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[This message has been edited by toff, 02-13-2002]

Lud, I can answer you ALL in one simple statement. I believe in creation, THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME RIGHT.In fact, a belief in creation is part of Christian belief. A belief in creationism is a belief in a different religion.And proabilities don't make Evolution (a belief) science. The most rediculas part of your argument is that you WILL NOT admit that Evolution is a religion and not science.The reason evolutionary theory cannot be religion, is that it is based on evidence, rather than faith. If you read actual texts on the theory, evidence, not faith, is cited to support the theory. The reason scientists overwhelmingly accept evolution is the fact that it explains the evidence better than any other theory.Again, Science is used to test and observe. Evoulion does not do this, Evolution is a belief, the same as creation.No, that's wrong. Agronomists, for example, use evolutionary theory in their work regularly, and make testable predictions. Recently, the evolution of a new, irreducibly complex metabolic pathway was directly observed.

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I'm concerned, though, that you have so little regard for faith that you use it as a criticism. For religion, faith is a very good thing.Oh, I will answer one question specifically. If others want to learn about creation and see it's proof look out side. The earth did not just "poof" and appear, someone or something created it. Look around you. The house or building you are sitting in and the computer you are typing did not just "poof" and appear, someone or something created it. Look at how perfect these things are. These perfections do not happen by chance. Imagine if someone told you that there was a hurricane and then "poof" the gods of evolution gave a brand new p4 2ghz with 256mb of ram and a 24x CD-RW. I'm sorry, that is how rediculas I think your belief is when you call it science.If I thought evolution was like that, I wouldn't like it, either. You've learned the Cartoon Version of evolution, not the real one.

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Might be worth checking out what it's really about, no?One more point, "poof" is a evolutionist's favorite word. "poof" sound alot like MAGIC!Funny, I keep seeing the "Poof!" theory used by creationists, not evolutionists. "Poof! Godmustadunnit." The bible's divine intervention is not something "I" can prove. I wasn't there. Nor were you to prove aginst it. But oh yeah, I forgot, I'm not calling my belief......SCIENCE.That's because it's based in faith, not evidence. Evolutionary theory, however, is based on evidence. Which is why it's a science. Would you like to learn more about it?