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Author | Topic: Evolution is a religion. Creation is a religion. | |||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22506 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
I think you might have the wrong idea about the positions of the opposing sides. Evolutionists believe there is little to no evidence supporting Creationism and that it is thinly disguised religion. They are not trying to "disprove creation." Absent Creationist attempts to promote Creationism as science in the public schools no one outside evangelical circles would know or care about Creationism and there would be no debate. I think you're actually responding to some of the antagonistic replies to some of your expressed religious beliefs, such as that the truth of your religion has been proven over and over. In a debate the assertions made in support of a position are fair game, and you made your religious beliefs fair game when you offered them in support of your position. No one here began with the goal of trying to prove your religion wrong, they're just responding to claims you yourself made.
Much evidence has been provided you in this thread. One demonstrates evidence false by addressing it, not ignoring it.
You will not find a pathway through your definitions leading to the unambiguous conclusion that evolution is synonymous with religion, both because language is too fluid for almost any word to have a single unambiguous meaning, but more importantly simply because evolution is not religion. The theory of evolution is accepted because of broad supporting evidence uncovered through years of field and lab and intellectual work based upon the scientific method. Religious beliefs are accepted on faith. --Percy
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
You are confused as to what science is, and isn't.
Repeating your misunderstanding and erronious opinions will not get you very far here, I'm afraid. Read the link I provided to you. Here it is again:
http://www.skepdic.com/science.html Make sure to also read the internal link found within the text about Creation science, too. If you are confused by anything there, or would like to discuss anything in deatail, please cut n paste the bit you would like to talk about, and we will go from there. Until you show that you understand the basics of what science is, I see very little point in discussing things with you. Please be different from most creationists and atually read the links I have provided, so we can engage in intelligent discussion. ------------------"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow- minded." -Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: "Dr." Hovind PURCHASED his PhD from a diploma mill called "Patriot University" which is operated out of a split-level in Colorado. Check out the photo, it's great for a laugh:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9917/hovind/wild_hovind.html Also, there is a link on this page to an account of someone who tried to claim Hovind's prize. It explains the rigged nature of the challenge, and wasn't able to get Hovind to show that he was good for the prize money, either. From the essay, "Some Questionable Creationist Credentials" at TalkOrigins,
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/credentials.html Kent Hovind (b. 195?) Kent Hovind is a young-earth creationist who gives frequent public lectures on evolution and creationism. He is well-known for repeating the claim that the remains of a basking shark found by Japanese fishermen off the coast of New Zealand were actually those of a recently deceased plesiosaur. Hovind claims to possess a masters degree and a doctorate in education from Patriot University in Colorado. According to Hovind, his 250-page dissertation was on the topic of the dangers of teaching evolution in the public schools. Formerly affiliated with Hilltop Baptist Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, Patriot University is accredited only by the American Accrediting Association of Theological Institutions, an accreditation mill that provides accreditation for a $100 charge. Patriot University has moved to Alamosa, Colorado and continues to offer correspondence courses for $15 to $32 per credit. The school's catalog contains course descriptions but no listing of the school'sfaculty or their credentials. Name It and Frame It lists Patriot University as a degree mill [3]. ------------------"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow- minded." -Steve Allen, from "Dumbth" [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-13-2002]
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, if the length of time a religion has been around is what makes it the "best" to you, shouldn't you actually be following one of the ancient Asian religions? ------------------"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow- minded." -Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"
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Jeff Inactive Member |
quote: You’re making this claim illustrates a lack of familiarity with science. Evolution is based on evidence. Evidence you apparently find difficult to discuss. Do you think that by simply dismissing the evidence with a wave of the hand, you are actually refuting it ? How can you refute without first acknowledging it ?
quote: You are now addressing points that no one made. Please show me where anyone made this claim.Can you comprehend the difference between claiming: ‘evolution is true’ -and ‘evolution is supported by evidence’ ? quote: Theories are NEVER proven. They can only be DISPROVEN — or falsified.Why do you insist that science provide PROOF ? You ever hear of the ‘blood from a stone’ analogy ? Science has no proof — merely tons of evidence, which you still have never addressed. Do you intend on ever addressing our pointsor is this as good as it gets ?
quote: Fair enough. I’m a lousy speller, myself and I rely heavily upon the spell checker. My point was, Hovind’s objections and even his challenge do not address real science. Hovind needs a ‘science-checker’ the same way I need a spell-checker. He’s mistaken and apparently oblivious to that fact. And speaking of tiredcan we drop this PROVE IT crap ? Or is this your best method of AVOIDING the evidence that you find so troubling ? Running away will not help your cause.
quote: I never said I doubted God. I doubt the Bible. There’s a BIG difference, my friend.Actually, the Bible asserts that Pi = 3 when our understanding of mathematics evaluate Pi at approx. 3.1415926535897932384626434 Your work I requested was your PROOF that Pi = 3. (we can use the ‘P’ word in math) quote: POOF ? That’s more or less a description of the creation events in Genesis, unless you can demonstrate the MECHANISMS employed by God to create everything. Otherwise, POOF is the story YOU are sticking tonot science. Science explores the mechanisms responsible for evolution. Scientists can’t investigate POOF.That’s Hovind’s domain. quote: What ?!? Are you trying to ‘interpret’ scripture to me ?Tell us why do you feel the need to CHANGE it’s LITERAL meaning ? Perhaps then you’ll tell us how YOUR interpretation is the ONLY possible one. Then explain the clear message in these verses: Matthew, 23:36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Matthew, 24:34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass , till all these things be fulfilled. How will you re-interpret the word ‘generation’ ? Or maybe you can twist the meaning of the word This ?NahFulfilled is an easier word to spin to support your agenda. quote: Oh, I see. You can’t make any sure sense of it either. If you say so Now that you mention it, it’s meaning is NOT very clear at all. It makes for great potential to spin a different meaning as needed.I was thinking that He meant the generation of those he was preaching to. Ya knowthe people listening ? Those Apostles ?? .like Matthew ? quote: No one made such claim at this message board. Do you hear voices ? .all the time ??I’m sorry. You seemed to have forgotten the topic that YOU brought up. Allow me to refresh your memory: you said I've seen the bible proven to be acurate time and time again We were discussing the abundant errors in the Bible, not whether creation happened. quote: Answer: never.Tired, already. quote: Uuuhhmmm.because he commits tax fraud on a yearly basis ??? I dunno. He seems to have no problem exploiting your sincere beliefs & faith. He probably steals it then lies on his tax return.
quote: No one is attempting to ‘obilish’ creation.The point being discussed is: What is science ? and what is NOT science ? And what will be presented in a public school science class - AS SCIENCE ? My interests are keeping religion out of science class. I could care less about your beliefs outside of public schools. They do not impact me in the least.Why not discuss comparative religion in a social-studies or a literature class ? quote: Yeah, I guess this is the same lord that brought plagues to Egypt, parted the Red Sea and stopped the Sun in the sky with Moses and Joshua.With all this Omnipotence, why did He balk at some Neolithic Volvos ? So how else should it be interpreted ? You’re the expert. quote: Well, I have challenged your baseless assertions, but I never recommended you expose your religious beliefs to the scrutiny of science and the ridicule of non-believers. I would hold my spiritual beliefs with higher regard than you. Why not keep your faith and your science separate ? You admitted your self that they don’t mesh.so why bother ?
quote: Nor shall you ever see ‘PROOF’. Nor shall you ever understand scienceapparently.
quote: You mean you find it unpleasant. But I don’t doubt it won’t work. You’ve already placed yourself beyond reason and logic. Must be why the Bible appeals to you so much. Kind regards, Jeff
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Christian1 Inactive Member |
quote:
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quicksink Inactive Member |
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Message 53 of 180 (4486)
02-14-2002 8:36 AM |
Reply to: Message 51 by Christian1 02-14-2002 8:24 AM |
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Message 51 by Christian1, posted 02-14-2002 8:24 AM | Christian1 has not replied |
Message 54 of 180 (4487)
02-14-2002 8:42 AM |
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Message 62 by mark24, posted 02-14-2002 1:54 PM | Christian1 has not replied | ||
Message 64 by Jeff, posted 02-15-2002 12:06 AM | Christian1 has not replied |
Message 55 of 180 (4488)
02-14-2002 8:44 AM |
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Message 63 by TrueCreation, posted 02-14-2002 4:48 PM | quicksink has not replied |
Message 56 of 180 (4489)
02-14-2002 8:47 AM |
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Message 57 of 180 (4490)
02-14-2002 8:51 AM |
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Message 58 of 180 (4491)
02-14-2002 8:52 AM |
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Message 59 of 180 (4492)
02-14-2002 9:22 AM |
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Message 60 by TrueCreation, posted 02-14-2002 11:42 AM | quicksink has not replied | ||
Message 61 by gene90, posted 02-14-2002 11:55 AM | quicksink has not replied |
Message 60 of 180 (4499)
02-14-2002 11:42 AM |
Reply to: Message 59 by quicksink 02-14-2002 9:22 AM |
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This message is a reply to: | |||
Message 59 by quicksink, posted 02-14-2002 9:22 AM | quicksink has not replied |
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