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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 519 (471713)
06-17-2008 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by PMOC
06-16-2008 5:54 PM


Re: Remediation in English
I'm afraid you ARE equivocating. Is there any difference between a sanctioned boxing match and someone beating you senseless on the street?
Yes. One is legal and the other is not. You can be arrested for assault and battery for having an impromptu boxing match in the street.
One scenario involves two CONSENSUAL ADULTS - you wilfully ignore this point time and time again - and the other does not.
I don't ignore it. I'm simply showing that this qualifier fails to explain why something is illegal or legal in the first place. Incest, between two consenting adults, is legal. Consent does not remove anything. Prostitution is between two consenting adults. It does not remove anything. Having an extra-marital affair is between consenting adults. Consent does not remove anything. Consenting to have Jack Kevorkian assist in suicide is between consenting adults. Consent does not remove anything.
Therefore, consent between adults is not the sole qualifier here. I have pointed this out, time and again, but it seems to be ignored. It should stand to reason then that people who want gay marriage also need to give a reason why one is rejected and the other accepted, as long as we're dealing with consenting adults.
So what I am saying now, and have been saying throughout this thread, is you picking one invariably denies the others rights under the very pretenses you advocate homosexual marriage. If barring two consenting adults from marrying is bigoted, then so is barring any other consenting adults for any other reason. Understand now?
There is absolutely nothing - save for a mythical book and your heebie jeebies - that separates the consenual act of sex amongst same sex partners and the same act between opposite partners.
First of all the societal aversion towards homosexuality didn't begin with one religious tome, and it hasn't ended with it either. Pretty much all societies have rejected it, save fallen Rome and Athens. You can't indict a religion with it, anymore than you could give sole credit to Moses as being the arbiter of homicide.
Secondly, nothing separates anything else either by the same rationale.

“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by PMOC, posted 06-16-2008 5:54 PM PMOC has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by lyx2no, posted 06-17-2008 11:06 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 124 of 519 (471758)
06-18-2008 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by lyx2no
06-17-2008 11:06 PM


Re: Remediation in English
There certainly would have been an easier way to make that argument ” like saying so. But you could have saves yourself the effort. It is not in evidence that anyone on the pro self-determination side of this argument thinks any of those situations should be illegal.
That isn't the point of the exercise. The point is understanding why it is this way to begin with. By understanding it, you will in turn be able to understand the rationale of people who find homosexual marriage objectionable.
Incest: The possibility of increased birth defects could give cause for incest to be kept illegal
Most people, it seems to me, that are on the side of homosexual marriage are also on the side of other hot topics, like abortion. Since when is a fetus born with birth defects a care for the pro-abortionist crowd? Or if they are, it seems a bit hypocritical.
Its kind of like a pro-choice advocate complaining about women that smoke while pregnant. If its her choice, through and through, then what she does while the child is in utero shouldn't be cause for alarm if she smokes.
Prostitution: Who hasn't heard the arguments for legalizing prostitution a zillion times. Where it has been legalized little harm seems to have come from it.
That's debatable whether little harm comes of it. There aren't many well-adjusted prostitutes out there. Aside from feeling sorrow for the (wo)man trapped in prostitution, there is also the factor that many people see it as a blight on civilization.
Adultery: It's legal
I'm not sure where you are from, but in the United States its illegal. There is no jail time for it, but since it is viewed as a legal contract, the one caught in adultery will surely lose in the preceding divorce.
Assisted suicide: This has gone back and forth a few times in the last twenty years with "mind your own beeswax" as its clarion call.
The issue with these things is not to get your personal opinion on the matter. The point of the exercise is to provide you with evidence that consent between adults is not the end-all, be-all.
It clearly can not be assumed that all, plus gay marriage, are not covered by the "Consenting Adult" umbrella.
I'd be content with finally dispelling the notion that I'm refering to homosexuals as necrophiliac paedophiles, as it has never been my intent to do so. But I think people finally are starting to see what angle I was coming from.
In the final analysis, if you consider yourself a homosexual and want to marry someone of the opposite sex, I won't stop you. I'm just offering a scenario on why we might not want to leap in to it. You may think that everything will turn out just fine, and that may very well be the case. For your sake, I hope you are right. Its not like I want to be cynical about it, its just that I am cynical about it.
Rest assured though that in all likelihood, homosexual marriage will be allowed in all Western nations by the year 2020. So I wouldn't worry about it too much if I were you.

“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by lyx2no, posted 06-17-2008 11:06 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by lyx2no, posted 06-18-2008 8:48 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 127 by ramoss, posted 06-18-2008 9:33 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 128 by PMOC, posted 06-18-2008 10:47 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 519 (471837)
06-18-2008 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by PMOC
06-18-2008 10:47 AM


Re: Remediation in English
That wasnt the point either.
I know what my own intentions are.
I don't care about your moral distinctions.
Okay.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by PMOC, posted 06-18-2008 10:47 AM PMOC has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 205 of 519 (472390)
06-22-2008 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Jaderis
06-22-2008 1:36 AM


belated
Happy belated birthday, Jaderis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Jaderis, posted 06-22-2008 1:36 AM Jaderis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Jaderis, posted 06-22-2008 2:22 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 209 of 519 (472401)
06-22-2008 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Jaderis
06-22-2008 2:22 AM


Re: belated
Happy birthday to you too! I hope it was a good one. Mine was the big 30!
Thanks... Mine was 31... And I'm totally going through an early midlife crisis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Jaderis, posted 06-22-2008 2:22 AM Jaderis has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 210 of 519 (472402)
06-22-2008 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by Jaderis
06-22-2008 2:17 AM


Re: Don't civil unions do enough for legal purposes?
If there was a "cure" for homosexuality right now I would "choose" to remain a lesbian.
Can I ask somewhat of a personal question regarding your sexuality? Feel free not to answer if it is too personal or if you simply don't feel comfortable answering.
As a lesbian, I imagine you've had these feelings for members of the same sex since you were a little girl, even if you couldn't fully understand them.
Was there ever a time you felt attracted to members of the opposite sex? If so, was it fleeting? Because I think everyone has the ability to, whether gay or straight, recognize if someone is attractive. It doesn't mean they desire them, it just means they can recognize why someone of the opposite sex would be attracted to them. If you were ever attracted to a man, was it more like that?
I guess what I'm trying to ask is, do you have the ability to understand how a straight woman could be attracted to a man, even though you may not feel that same desire within you?
As well, in lesbian relationships, there seems to be some very defined roles in the form of submissive or dominant roles. (Not always, I'm sure, but enough to notice.) How are these roles assigned? I don't mean that they are contrived, but I guess I want to know if they are based off of someone's natural personality.
I guess one thing that never made sense to me about homosexuality is that I noticed that in many, many cases, a male will be attracted to an effeminate male, and a female will be attracted to a female with more masculine attributes.
So when I was younger, I remember asking myself, "Well, if they are attracted to qualities that predominate the opposite sex, why then the attraction to the same sex?"
It made me wonder if some of them had some latent, unresolved issues with members of the opposite sex. For instance, when I was in the Navy I worked with a lesbian. A really cute and sweet girl. Because she was in the military, she didn't broadcast her sexuality, but in a safe group of people, myself included, she felt trusting enough to divulge that information.
Anyhow, we would spend hours together on post. Obviously in that time we talked about a lot of different things. It turns out that she had a string of bad relationships with men, her brother and father died when she was young, etc. Later on she ended up sleeping with some of our fellow co-workers -- two men.
I began to wonder if she wasn't actually a lesbian, but was actually just hurt by members of the opposite sex, and so she contrived this alter-ego, if you will, to compensate for the pain she felt.
Before I go on, I am not suggesting that you suffer from some delusion, so please don't think I am suggesting that. What I am asking is, have you ever met a lesbian where you in fact questioned their actual sexuality? Did you ever suspect that maybe they were straight, but were for whatever reason, hurt or let down by men, and sought comfort with women?
Does that make any sense? If not I can clarify.
And look here, sister. These aren't loaded questions. I'm just being inquisitive. I'm just trying to understand your point-of-view.
Again, if it is too personal, feel free not answering it.

“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Jaderis, posted 06-22-2008 2:17 AM Jaderis has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Rrhain, posted 06-22-2008 5:05 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 423 of 519 (473781)
07-02-2008 10:03 PM


Silence
While I think it's b.s. to be censored and suspended for an opinion, especially an opinion that was intentionally misrepresented by liars who willfully continue to choose to misinterpret me, whilst others blatantly use ad hominem against me without the least bit of reprisal, I made a promise a while back.
I forgot that promise, and I overstepped my own boundaries. My apologies.
Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : Edit to add

“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by lyx2no, posted 07-03-2008 9:16 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 432 of 519 (473899)
07-03-2008 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by lyx2no
07-03-2008 9:16 AM


Re: Liar, Liar, Pants onifre*
Lyx2no,
In keeping with the promise, I obviously can't discuss that with you.

“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by lyx2no, posted 07-03-2008 9:16 AM lyx2no has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 464 of 519 (474624)
07-09-2008 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 448 by Artemis Entreri
07-08-2008 9:02 PM


I wish they would just let us vote on this issue
Seems the most democratic thing to do.
It was pretty funny that you called somebody a bigot because their beliefs are different than yours, when that is what biggotry is.
Shhhhhhh.... Stop making sense. That's not allowed here.

“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 448 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-08-2008 9:02 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 465 by subbie, posted 07-09-2008 6:18 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 469 by FliesOnly, posted 07-10-2008 8:05 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 467 of 519 (474637)
07-09-2008 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 465 by subbie
07-09-2008 6:18 PM


Consti-2-shun
Ever heard of the Constitution?
I think I've heard something about that once or twice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by subbie, posted 07-09-2008 6:18 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 468 by subbie, posted 07-09-2008 10:18 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

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