Two wrongs don't make a right (the (ir)rationality of revenge) - also gun control

But that's already a law... And that's part of the problem. Many of what gun control advocates complain about are already bylaws, and yet they still remain unsatisfied.What exactly are you hoping for when you say that you want stricter gun control? Well, that's already happened in virtually every single society to date... The United States is really one of the last places on earth that believes that the people have a right to keep and bear arms. It's therefore not all that far-fetched that certain people and institutions within the US government want to restrict the 2nd Amendment.

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"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. " Thomas Paine

How else do you think the United States gained its independence from the most powerful empire of the time?For clarification, I have no desire to live like Somali's, where the factions with the most guns rule the streets. I think highly of gun-control and agree with most of what has already been passed. But I am suspicious of those that seek to restrict it further. Those who say they don't want to eradicate citizen ownership of guns altogether aren't stupid. They aren't going to do this in one swift move, but rather by a slow and methodical stripping of rights. Look at how well conventional forces have fared against rag-tag rebel
forces, past and present, with little more than small arms and human ingenuity. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc. The US government would be foolish to even attempt to disarm its own citizens at this point. Americans would never stand for it, nor would they willingly surrender their arms so peacefully. The government knows that. They aren't just going to do something like that overnight. How they would take away gun rights is, like I said, slowly through one piece of legislature at a time.I don't think there is some vast conspiracy theory where the government is trying to disarm the citizens of the US. But there are those in high places that would like to someday see that. I believe they have benevolent intentions... But that doesn't mean that they are necessarily right because they have good intentions in mind.

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"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. " Thomas Paine

Presumably you also see no reason for wearing a seatbelt, or a motorcycle helmet, or washing your hands before eating.I bet the Virginia Tech survivors can see many reasons why they should have been carrying a gun.

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"We must respect the law, not let it blind us away from the basic principles of fairness, justice and freedom"

Although this is technically true the law requires that you're either a member of a rifle or muzzle-loading gun club to apply for one of these, or -for a shotgun- you have another 'valid reason' to need one, such as pest control for example. As I've found out, keeping one in the house for self-defense doesn't constitute a 'valid reason'.So, as there's no rifle club near where I live and I'm not a farmer, I'm not allowed to own a gun. This is why I'm saying that ordinary citizens are effectively disarmed in the UK.

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"We must respect the law, not let it blind us away from the basic principles of fairness, justice and freedom"

Where do you live that you're constantly having to shoot your way home?Seatbealts and helmets are worn when you're driving, not just for kicks. Are you always locked and loaded walking around waiting for danger? Is that the society you want to live in? I bet the dead ones see many reasons why the killer shouldn't have been carrying one.Also, your statement barely makes sense. Are you saying that a shoot-out between the attacker and the students whould have been better?I wonder how many people really have the balls to pull out a gun and get into a shoot-out like that. It's easy to play it up on a forum, it's a lot different when real bullets are flying by you.- Oni

And yet you're still alive and well, typing away about how dangerous society is when you don't have a gun. How do you do it? How do you survive your daily life without a gun? Should we expect you to be dead soon because you're not armed? How many tiimes this week did you have to flee a gun-man's attack?- Oni

Can you imagine the carnage if a bunch of armed untrained yahoos tried to get in a shoot out with the shooter? The last thing I want is an untrained, nervous, excited hero wannabe, getting in a shoot out with a killer.Do you know anything about guns and using them? If you could have a gun for self defense, what would it be? Handgun? If so what caliber? Shotgun? Assault rifle? Where would you keep it? Would you lock it up? Have a trigger lock? What kind of loads would you use? Would you practice regularly? Would you maintain it? Do you have children?MOst people don't think about any of these questions. Have you?

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

I agree 100% with your post, Theo. People watch Die Hard and think they can do that stuff.People think, (I have personal friends who own guns and brag about this all the time), just because they have the gun, or even have shot it plenty of times and can handle the weapon, that they can actually get in a gun fight and maintain calmness throughout it, taking proper shots and being careful not hit bystanders.When in actuality that situation is so crazy and chaotic that it'll just be total mayhem - add to that a bunch of idiots firing off shots and you'll have a worse situation then intended.- Oni

Strawman.Vehicles are statistically far more deadly than firearms. Should we suppose that since none of us have died in car accidents that we should stop obeying traffic laws and stop wearing seatbelts?

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"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. " Thomas Paine

My bone of contention is more with untrained, unlicensed boaters, possibly the dumbest idea in the history. We make it compulsory to get a driver's license, but not a boating license. WTF??? But I digress, as this is not the topic. My job requires to carry firearms every day, so yes. A compact, concealable .40 caliber semi-automatic pistol. For home defense and for target practice, yes. Each weapon has a lock box and a trigger lock, never loaded when not in use, with sources of ammunition in a separate location. Whatever the weapon specifies. Sure, because something else people forget is that shooting is also a past-time as it requires skill. Not everyone owns guns for the sole purpose of defense. It would be foolish not to. Yes. Yes.

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"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. " Thomas Paine

People drive everyday, all day, 24 hours, just about every single adult does in the US. Gun ownership and usage pale in comparison to the amount of cars used.- Oni

Yet, despite VA state prohibiting the carrying of guns in schools, the killer brought guns into campus and used them. What a suprise, a law being ignored by someone who intents harm!The people who obeyed the law were those who desperately needed a gun at that time. They paid the price with their lives. The attack in the school lasted 9 minutes during which Cho fired 174 rounds which means he must have reloaded his .22 revolver at least twice, taking between 10-15 seconds each time. *If* other students had been allowed to carry guns they would have ample opportunity to shoot him and end the carnage. Unfortunately, they weren't and they didn't.Does that make sense to you now? If you're caught up in a violent situation where you feel your life is in imminent danger and you have no escape route then you'll use whatever means at your disposal to enhance your survival chances. It's not whether you have the 'balls' or not it's just whether you have the means.

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"We must respect the law, not let it blind us away from the basic principles of fairness, justice and freedom"

I haven't been in a car-crash recently either but I still wear a seat belt when I drive.You point...?

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"We must respect the law, not let it blind us away from the basic principles of fairness, justice and freedom"

Question was directed to Legend, who has no experience with weapons but wants to pack one.Evidently you are a professional so the questions do not pertain to you.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Oh yeah that would have been terrible. It's much better that they just lied helpless while Cho picked them off at his ease. That's right, just let the killer go on a killing spree undisturbed instead. what's that got to do with my right to defend myself in my own home with a gun?Do you know, off the top of your head, the stopping distance of your car at 70mph? No? Does that mean you shouldn't be allowed to drive a car?

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"We must respect the law, not let it blind us away from the basic principles of fairness, justice and freedom"