Species/Kinds (for Peg...and others)

Hi jasonlang, It seems I do.1. god created distinct kinds.Correct.2. These kinds can never cross with other kindsI never said that.I have said and say again for the last time.If you take a male dog and a female dog and breed them you will get a litter of dog pups. You will never get anything but dog pups.3. you listed dog kind and wolf kind as seperate kindsCorrect. They are separate kinds.4. point 3 contradicts point 2 and point 1, given that dogs and wolves can be crossed.But I never stated your point 2 which is a strawman you created.Your point three and point 1 state the same thing.5. Conclusion : dogs and wolves must be the same kind (canine kind).Can you breed two dogs and get a wolf pup?Can you breed two wolves and get a dog pup?If you can then they are the same kind.If you can't then they are a different kind.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi ZenMonkey, Well it is not a dog kind.It is not a wolf kind.Therefore it is a Hybrid that can go on and produce many more hybrids.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi greyseal, According to whom?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi greyseal, Where did you get the impression I did not believe in evolution?Being raised on a farm and breeding animals to produce a larger more durable breed I know evolution takes place.But in all my years I have never seen one kind produce another kind. I can find no evidence for such ever taking place.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Its common knowledge around here I believe the Bible. Where did I make this claim? That would be a better question to ask the breeders that produce the German shepherd.As I understand it the German shepherd is a hybrid. I never pet a German shepherd I did not raise. I have owned too many of them. When I get a female I want her eyes just opened. It takes a lot of bonding and that is the best time to start. You feed them from a bottle and have them become dependent on you. They will become very protective of their humans and territory.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Dr. Where in any of my posts did I say that if you cross a wolf and a dog you would not get a hybrid?I did say if you breed two animals of a kind you would get an animal of the same kind. You will never get a hybrid.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jasonlang Well I believe in the literal Bible. I study the LXX, Hebrew, and Greek texts. But yes it is possible they know more than I do. But since the Holy Spirit leads me I will listen to Him rather than them.The statement in your reference :

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A baramin is a lineage of earthly life which is believed by Young Earth Creationists to be created by God during the creation week,

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I do not believe in a young earth so I put no faith in anything they say. You have my statements concerning kinds and hybrids I see no need to repeat them.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi greyseal, I am a creationist. Just not your average creationist. I believe in the begining God created the heaven and the earth. All things found in Genesis 2:4 through Genesis 4:24 took place prior to Genesis 1:2.In Genesis 1:21-25 God called forth fish, birds, animals, all living creatures after their own kind out of the water and the ground.These creatures He called forth had existed prior to this time. Yes except I think I refered to the offspring as hybrids. IS IT A WOLF? NOIS IT A DOG? NOIS IT A NEW KIND? NOIT IS HALF WOLF AND HALF DOG. THAT MAKES IT A HYBRID.
If you take these half breeds and breed them to half breeds and continue to do so you can blurr the lines until they almost disappear competely. There will be thousands of hybrids created in the process.But they will all be a hybrid of a wolf and dog cross.And the dog and the wolf will still exist.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi hooah, In Message 271 you quote a sciencemag article that states domestic dogs existed 12,000 years ago. It did not state but I assume the wolf existed also.That being the case if the earth was covered with water some 6000 years ago and God did a restoration project and called all the creatures we have today from their kind what is your queston? What is your problem with the different kinds that exist today?In Message 275 you reference an extinct carnivorous marsupial and ask me if it is a Dog? Wolf? Kangaroo? Tiger?It is none of those but was a carnivorous marsupial hybrid.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi greyseal, I don't remember calling them both dogs. Did I?There are over 500 different hybrids that man has created over the past 6,000+ years that is commonly refereed to as dogs. None of them are purebreds. I see you looked at my avatar. Those both are hybrids. There was much breeding, cross breeding and inbreeding to get to those extremes. When that picture was taken that was the tallest and shortest living hybrids refereed to as horses. I thought that is what you was doing from the beginning. So if some 3700 years ago there was a pair of domestic dogs that was on an ark along with a pair of wolves and each of these was the only living survivors of their kind. They replenished the earth with their offspring. Man gets involved and breeds dogs and wolves and produces a wolf dog. Then these wolf dogs produce offspring. At the same time man is breeding dog with dog and producing dogs. The wolf dogs are uncontrollable so man breeds dogs with the wolf dogs getting more dog in the offspring than wolf until he gets and offspring with very little wolf in it which is more controllable such as the German shepherd.In the meantime we have created thousands of hybrids that have created thousands of hybrids. I would have to make a guess as to what someone would say to your example.But we don't have to guess what I would say. Because after 3700 years I have just said, we have a lot of hybrids we call dogs. Which in fact have been created from a pair of domestic dogs. With a little wolf bred into the hybrids. If I said there will always be dogs, I TAKE THAT BACK.I did say dogs will always produce dogs.The wild dogs in Africa will always produce wild dogs.Wild wolves will always produce wild wolves.If the last dog and wolf cease to exist there will be no dogs or wolves to produce their kind. Just as there are no dinosaurs today as they ceased to exist.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi hooah, I attempted to answer that question and it went right over you head.Your article said:

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however, the earliest finds believed to be from domestic dogs are a single jaw from 14,000 years before the present

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Domestic dogs existed 14,000 years ago.The same article asserts:

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Its origin from wolves is well established from genetic as well as behavioral and morphological data (1-3), but apart from this, available clues give no clear picture of its origin.

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There is: "no clear picture of its origin."Regardless of the origin of the domestic dog he did exist 14,000 years ago according to science. So he should be able to exist today as then.I keep reading of a extinction event that took place some 10k to 12k years ago.I also find the same event in the Bible in Genesis 1:2.Then I find in Genesis 1:20-25 where God called the animals, birds, fishes, etc forth after their kind. Therefore anything that pre-existed could have been called forth after its kind.So what is your problem with a wolf kind and a dog kind?Origionally all creatures came from the ground and therefore was made out of the same thing which would create similiar things in everything.And yes I know you believe it all came from a premortal soup.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi hooah, You have the man formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 mixed up with the man created in the image of God in Genesis 1:27.The man created in Genesis 1:27 is said to have lived 930 years but that man never named anything.The man formed from the dust of the earth in Genesis 2:7 is the man that named the different kinds. There is no age stated for this man his wife, their son Abel, Cain or any of Cain's decendants. I think that is how I got involved in this discussion by asking for a list of the animals that would be necessary to produce all the different creatures we have today.I have an ark that I have designed according to the Bible description and in it I have 18 acres of storage space and can put much more. I just need a list to see if I can fit all the animals in it.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi greyseal, I thought that was scientific evolution not theory. Please correct me it this is wrong.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi hooah, So then according to you our domestic dog is a tame wolf.Then why does he not have the eating habits of the wolf.
Why does the dog with the strongest jaw strength have only 750 lbs per sq inch when a wolf has 1500 psi. You got all you are going to get as you asked for my opinion.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jason, Just what did that link you quoted from say? Your quote found in Message 270

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Other groups such as the German shepherd showed a closer relation to wolf sequences than to those of the main dog group, suggesting that such breeds had been produced by crossing dogs with wild wolves.

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That statement says the German shepherd shows closer relation to the wolf than other dogs of the main dog group.It does not say the German shepherd is more wolf than dog as you claim.The same article tells us that according to DNA the wolf and domestic dog/wolf took place 100,000 years ago. The problem then arises that the fossil record of domestic dog/wolf only goes back 14,000 years.The certainty of domestic dog/wolf goes back to 7,000 BC.The rest of message 327 has nothing to do with kinds, and is off topic.In Message 284 you state: In Message 272 They are different hybrids we call dogs.Domestic Dog is a creature that has been said in this thread is a wolf that has been domesticated by mankind.If that is the case there is no such thing as dog. They are only domesticated wolves.That rules out my dog kind and makes them only a wolf kind.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."