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Author Topic:   Underlying Philosophy
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 4 of 577 (553308)
04-02-2010 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sac51495
04-02-2010 5:06 PM


Welcome
this topic would primarily focus on the philosophical implications of the underlying belief of a given worldview, and would basically avoid scientific evidence, not because of fear that the evidence will support a given worldview over another, but because it is hard for the facts to convince someone that their worldview is wrong, because those facts are interpreted in different ways depending on that particular person's underlying philosophy. So this battle is a battle of the underlying assumptions of theism and atheism.
I don't think you can find a fully philosophical explanation of morals or beliefs from people who don't have beliefs. I have little choice but to point toward science for explanations.
I would like to propose a topic centering on the underlying philosophy of atheism
There is none... atheist is simply defined as "not theist" or rather a person who doesn't have belief in a god or gods. This covers variety of people .
laws of logic, morals, ethics, and other such entities. Further, how could these entities arise in a universe that is not governed by God?
Evolution explains some ideas that we hold as morals such as the sense of fairness. Not killing or stealing I would also point toward evolution as most social animals also instinctually "know. " not to do these things because it would cause problems in the social group. obviously it wouldn't be in the best interest of an individual to kill others who it depends on.
Here is a study done that shows monkeys have a sense of fairness of treatment.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...17_monkeyfairness.html
Most other morals can be subjective however I personally look at it this way.
Immoral: Anything that causes any kind of pain or suffering.

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 Message 1 by sac51495, posted 04-02-2010 5:06 PM sac51495 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by sac51495, posted 04-02-2010 10:45 PM DC85 has replied

DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 24 of 577 (553378)
04-02-2010 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by sac51495
04-02-2010 10:45 PM


In this statement, you point toward science to provide support for your belief (atheism)
I do not have this belief you speak of.
that natural law or science is your supreme authority,
I wasn't aware there was such an authority.
your underlying belief is that God is not the supreme authority,
No I simply do not believe in this God
I believe in God as my supreme authority,
Why do you believe this? A "feeling" will not mean anything to me so I do hope you can explain it without that description.
If I say "I am not French" this does not give us much information about what I really am.
That was the point the word atheist only tells you I don't believe in a god or gods it tells you nothing else about me or any other atheist.
As to your statements about morals and ethics, you simply explained what the morals are in your universe, but you do not explain how, in a materialist universe, abstract (meaning *non-material) entities can arise
In the mind like any other idea or collectively as a species or a society.
the morals are subjective, how can the law justly punish someone who has committed a moral wrong if that particular person believes that the crime they committed was actually a good thing under their system of morals.
Laws serve the society's best interest as a whole they aren't based on morals.

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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 26 of 577 (553380)
04-02-2010 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by sac51495
04-02-2010 10:58 PM


Re: Evolution of Brains?
What laws of logic were used to come to the conclusion that we must use laws of logic in our world? You say that since we see that everything around us is logical, that we must then think logically. So this is circular reasoning to say that we use the laws of logic to prove that we must use the laws of logic.
And yes, what you are talking about is precisely what I meant.
Science is based on empirical evidence so logic based in science is based on empirical evidence.
Correct me If I'm wrong but
"faith" is based on feelings. How do you draw your entire belief and moral structure from a "feeling"?

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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 28 of 577 (553383)
04-02-2010 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by sac51495
04-02-2010 11:39 PM


how did we come to the conclusion that language is logical? We must have reasoned in order to do this, which, I would hold, is circular reasoning. If you derive the laws of logic from language, then where did language come from?
We didn't it's both an evolved trait and a social evolving trait. Humans are a social species language evolved as the species evolved and got more complex as societies and more complex social structures came into being.
. The best way for you to understand God is to read the Bible (and I would highly suggest that you do so) and then you can be to some degree enlightened.
Why do you assume me as an atheist has never read the Bible?
So I believe that we must have a god to account for the laws of logic, because a god is the only thing that can be invoked to make sense of these things.
I disagree. I think Evolution , social interaction , and societies advancing explain it well.
We must then resort to God, because he "has made all things".This explanation may not satisfy you, but I would implore to read the the very words of God Himself if you would like to understand better.
I know the Bible very well.... I don't believe a word of it

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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 36 of 577 (553392)
04-03-2010 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by IchiBan
04-03-2010 12:30 AM


Why is it that they all assume everyone most have central beliefs? Why is everyone categorized?

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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 38 of 577 (553394)
04-03-2010 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by sac51495
04-03-2010 12:33 AM


Re: Origins Of Logic
ere, once again, is an underlying assumption. You believe man made up the laws of logic.
I do not recall him making this claim.
where are you getting "made up?" The concept of logic is in our minds but the concept is based on evidence
I believe they are derived from God.
Why do you believe this? What possible reason do you have to believe this? Reading the Bible has not done this for me. I don't get a feeling...
Is there any other rational you have for this belief of yours?
for this would be circular reasoning.
as is the entire concept of God....

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 Message 35 by sac51495, posted 04-03-2010 12:33 AM sac51495 has replied

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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(1)
Message 42 of 577 (553398)
04-03-2010 1:25 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by sac51495
04-03-2010 1:09 AM


Re: It reverts back to the evidence
My eyes have been opened to God's glory in His universe, and no, this is not merely a feeling. Once you become a Christian, your eyes become opened to the world in ways they had never been before
I was a Christian once realized that it was a delusion in my mind much like the delusion that my first love was destiny. I wanted it to be true so in my mind it was.
every single thing, from the human eye to a tree, and their marvelous designs, points irrefutably toward a God.
I do not see design. I would like you to explain why you believe it was designed. I would like to point out that complexity is not proof of design.
These things I have mentioned merely strengthen my belief in God.
funny how these very things are why I don't believe
is not a "feeling" but an eye-opening experience initiated by God,
Are you sure it's not in your head?. like I said I once had an eye-opening experience that told me my love for her was destiny. Like most first loves it was delusion created by desire.

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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 44 of 577 (553400)
04-03-2010 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by dwise1
04-03-2010 1:20 AM


I ran your post into another I apologize
Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 47 of 577 (553403)
04-03-2010 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by IchiBan
04-03-2010 1:25 AM


Not only is that list a pile but if you continue making bold assumptions I will consider you one as well. Don't tell me where I am and what I believe because your mind can't conceive a world without absolute beliefs

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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 49 of 577 (553405)
04-03-2010 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by IchiBan
04-03-2010 1:47 AM


Start a new thread and I will destroy every assertion .
Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 52 of 577 (553409)
04-03-2010 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by IchiBan
04-03-2010 1:55 AM


@IchiBan
go away wingnut troll, You have no desire to debate or to have us understand your position. You're only here to annoy people and I sure in your small mind you find it funny
edit:I'm sorry to everyone else who I interrupted
Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 84 of 577 (553472)
04-03-2010 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by IchiBan
04-03-2010 2:13 AM


@IchiBan
Your examples have no basis beyond your mind and are not relevant to the topic at hand. If you make assertions you have to back them up. If you want to discuss these things start a topic.
Coyote is justified in calling you or your list a steaming pile as you have attacked him personally. It would be the same as him making false assertions about you with no way to back it up.
Why are you so angry?

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 Message 53 by IchiBan, posted 04-03-2010 2:13 AM IchiBan has replied

Replies to this message:
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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 87 of 577 (553475)
04-03-2010 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by IchiBan
04-03-2010 2:47 AM


Why should we respect anything you say when you plagiarized everything from this website.
HugeDomains.com
It appears you aren't even capable of creating and rationalizing your own arguments.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 94 by AdminPD, posted 04-03-2010 3:17 PM DC85 has not replied

DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 91 of 577 (553484)
04-03-2010 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by IchiBan
04-03-2010 1:25 PM


And finally I dont know why respect from 'we' is so important since 'all you guys' are not so clean yourself, so how about dropping the sanctimonious attitudes.
Why don't you drop yours?
there goes that crap anti"elitist" mentality that cons seem to have. We know something or may even simply believe something you don't and some how that makes us arrogant. Instead of trying to understand that you have this bizarre psychosis that these people are attacking you when the reality is you're attacking them and they may simply be defending themselves.
It all comes down to destroy the messenger here because you dont like the message.
It isn't a message or truth they appear to be baseless assumptions.
Why should I ever listen to a Christian if one won't listen to me? We have many creationists we have civil debates with on this board now and in the past. I have respect for these people while not having respect for the belief. If they attack us.... well it seems only fair to call them on it and some may bite back.
If you want to discuss specifics start a new topic other wise you're trolling. We're here to discuss not for YOU to falsely tell us what we believe.

This message is a reply to:
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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 109 of 577 (554984)
04-11-2010 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by sac51495
04-11-2010 10:39 AM


First of all, I did not say whether or not I believe evidence is supreme. The question at hand is how you have come to assert that evidence is supreme in defining your truths.
perhaps we can understand what you're asking if you explain how you have come to assert that a the existence of a supreme being defines your truths? Please answer this.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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