Creation as presented in Genesis chapters 1 and 2

Straggler writes:Quite how you justify this is the part I am obviously missing?

It is a widely held belief in the scholarly community is that there are two creation stories in Genesis:

Peg writes:i do refute your assertion that there are two creation accounts.

Peg writes:'these are the geneological annals which were from the beginning' ....the beginning being what was described in chpt 1:1 'in the beginning God created the heavens and earth'

ICANT writes: I know from this verse that the following things are the history of the creation of the heaven and the earth in Genesis 1:1.

Peg writes:And besides that, even Jesus commented that Adam and Eve were the ones that God created 'in the beginning'

ICANT writes:I know from verse 7 the first life form on earth was man that God formed a man of the dust of the ground.
I also know God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and that man became a living being.I know from verse 22 God cloned a woman from the rib He had taken from the man, and brought her to him.

Peg writes:What was jesus quoting here? He was quoting Genesis 2:24 which says "That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh"Yet, Jesus says that this was the couple that God made 'in the beginning' which is what Genisis 1:1 says 'in the beginning'

ICANT writes:I know from verse 24 the man said because of this man will leave home and cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.I know from verse 7 the first life form on earth was man that God formed a man of the dust of the ground.
I also know God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and that man became a living being.I know from verse 22 God cloned a woman from the rib He had taken from the man, and brought her to him.

Peg writes:So chpt 1 & 2 are discussing the same account of creation but contain different details of the same story.

Straggler writes:Because I am asking why you think that the two accounts relate to different events and people. Rather than two contradictory and inconsistent accounts of the same things?

Straggler writes:What assertion? I have simply asked you to justify why it is you think there are two separate sets of events rather than one that has been accounted for inconsistently.

Straggler writes:Well it seems that you are taking blatant contradictions in the bible regarding the same people and the same biblical events and weaving your own tale of two humanities.

Peg writes:let me get this straight.Do you mean to imply that everything spoken of in Genesis chpt 1 happened in Vs 1 which states 'in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth'

Peg writes:If thats what you mean, then i would just like to remind you that Gen chpt 2 states that the 7th day began and God proceeded to 'rest from his work' on that day.

Peg writes:To me this implies that Gods creative works regarding the earth and mankind were completed by the end of the 6th day....and his 'resting' meant that no more creative works were forthcoming. Otherwise why would moses even say this if he kept on creating more lifeforms on the earth???

Catholic Scientist writes:Well now you're just being inconsistent. You pick and choose when you want to use the Chapter divisions and when you don't, and when you want to take one specific word as divinely inspired or not. You have your a priori belief and you'll twist the Bible to fit it however you need to.

Catholic Scientist writes:There's no reason to take your particular apologetic over any other one.

Catholic Scientist writes:Moses didn't write either of them...

Straggler writes:So I keep being told. Maybe people just don't like having their baseless assumptions questioned?

Peg writes:Do you include the heavens/universe in that 6,000 year time frame?

hotjer writes:w00tly w00t awesome moses guy, right?

hotjer writes:I think I already did come up with a very good argument to why Moses did not write the Torah. To me, the difference seems to be that I have an informed opinion and you just have an opinion, and you deny the (few) evidence I just provided you. Anyways, I will try to provide you with more information on the subject.

Exodus Exd 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this [for] a memorial in a book, and rehearse [it] in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

Exodus Exd 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

Deuteronomy Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

hotjer writes:If Moses did write the Torah we would expect consisten content,

hotjer writes:This formula is original derived from the Book of Records Gen 5:1.

hotjer writes:Gen 2:4 second part: "In the day that YHWH God made earth and skies." The text now changes, always referring to God's name YHWH eleven times, but "YHWH God" only occurs in the introductory chapter and nowhere else in the Pentateuch.
The source we identify as P (Gen 1:1 — Gen 2:3) begins with "the skies and the earth" (Gen 1:1) and the source we identify as J begins with "the earth and the skies" , the reversing order. It is not proof of anything, but it is notable since these five words reveal the sources perspectives. P is more heaven-centred while J is more human-centred. Furthermore, the combining of the sources produced provide a more transcendent conception of God in P which merges with the more personal conception in J. The combined conception of God as cosmic and the "God of your father" has been a central element of Judaism and Christianity.

hotjer writes:I hope my answer satisfies you despite English not being my first language

ICANT writes:In this thread I will affirm that there are 2 creations presented in Genesis chapter 1 and 2.In this thread the KJV, LXX and Hebrew text will be used.The Bible will be the final authority as that is what we will be discussing.

ICANT writes:I know from this verse that the following things are the history of the creation of the heaven and the earth in Genesis 1:1.I know from Genesis 1:1 That the heaven and the earth was created in the beginning. It was already in existence when Genesis 1:2 took place. Therefore it was not created during the 6 days described in Genesis 1:2-31.Verse 4 of chapter 2 is the beginning of the history of what happened in the day (light period) the heaven and the earth was created.I know from verse 5 there was no life on earth. There was no man, plant, tree, or herb of the field and it had not rained on the earth.I know from verse 6 God caused the earth to be water from a mist that came from underground.I know from verse 7 the first life form on earth was man that God formed a man of the dust of the ground.
I also know God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and that man became a living being.I know from verse 8 Eden existed and God planted a garden eastward in Eden. God then put the man in this garden.I know from verse 9 God caused every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food to grow. He also provided the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.I know from verse 10 that a river went out of Eden to water the garden. After watering the garden it divided into 4 rivers.
I know from verses 11-14 some information about these rivers. I don't know the purpose of these verses.I know from verse 15 that God gave the man He had formed from the dust of the ground a job. He was to dress the garden and keep it.I know from verses 16 and 17 that the man was told he could eat of every tree of the garden except he could not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.I also know that he was told if he did eat of that tree he would die the same day. It does not say if God explained what death was but since God is just He had to explain it to the man.I know from verse 18 God said it was not good for man to be alone and He said He would make him an help meet.I know from verse 19 God formed every animal and every fowl from the ground. He then brought them to the man to see what he would call them.I know from verse 20 the man gave names to all cattle, all fowl, and the beast of the field. But God had not made a help meet for the man yet.I know from verse 21 God removed a rib from the man.I know from verse 22 God cloned a woman from the rib He had taken from the man, and brought her to him.That concluded the creation events recorded in this history. But there is much history left.I know from verse 23 that the man said this is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh and that she would be called woman.I know from verse 24 the man said because of this man will leave home and cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.I know from verse 25 they were naked and were not ashamed. They lived in perfect inn once.I know at this time there had been no water creatures created.I know at this time there is no mention of seas.I know that this is the record of what happened in Genesis 1:1 as Genesis 2:4 declares that it is.Thus I have described here a creation that is covered in Chapter 2.

ICANT writes:I know from verse 1 the heaven and the earth was (bara) created.I am affirming that the following is the creation story in Genesis chapter 1 beginning with verse 2 and ending with verse 31 as nothing was created on the 7th day.I know from verse 2 it had become uninhabitable as it was covered with water.I know from verse 3 God caused light to be on the earth. It says nothing about Him (bara) creating the light. He just made it visible.I know from verse 4 God divided the light from the darkness. It was dark on half of the earth and light on the other half of the earth.I know from verse 5 God called the light day and the darkness night. It also tells me a light period and a dark period equals one day.The light period of Genesis 1:1 and the dark period that ended with the light period of the second day was declared the first day.I know from verse 6, 7, and 8 that God separated the waters from the uplifted waters and called that atmosphere heaven. This is where the birds and our airplanes fly.I know from verse 8 the light period that began with the end of the dark period of the first day and ended with the light period of the third day was the second day.I know from verse 9 that God caused all the water to gather in one place and let dry land appear as it is shown in my avatar.I know from verse 10 that God called the dry land earth and the water sea.So far nothing has been created only rearranged.I know from verse 11 that God had the earth bring forth grass, herbs, and fruit trees, from their seed which was upon the earth.I know from verse 12 that the earth obeyed and produced grass, herbs, and fruit trees.I know from verse 13 the light period that began with the end of the dark period of the second day and ended with the light period of the fourth day was the third day.I know from verse 14 and 15 that God caused visible lights in the heavens to be for signs and seasons, days and years and to give light upon the earth.I know from verse 16, 17 and 18 that God caused two great lights to be visible on earth one to rule the day and one to rule the night. He also caused the stars to be visible on earth.Still nothing has been (bara) created they were only made visible on earth.I know from verse 19 the light period that began with the end of the dark period of the third day and ended with the light period of the fifth day was the fourth day.I know from verse 20 that God caused the waters to bring forth water creatures and fowl to fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.Still nothing (bara) created.I know from verse 21 that God (bara) created great whales.The first thing created that was not created in Genesis 1:1.I know from verse 22 that God blessed them and told them to multiply and fill the waters and the fowl to multiply on the earth.I know from verse 23 the light period that began with the end of the dark period of the fourth day and ended with the light period of the sixth day was the fifth day.I know from verse 24 and 25 God called the living creature, cattle, creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind. That means they had already existed to come forth after their kind.I know from verse 26 and 27 that God (bara) created mankind in His image male and female He created them. Did He create 2 or a thousand there is no way to know as the scripture does not say. He gave mankind dominion over the creatures on earth.I know from verse 28 God blessed them and told them to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it.I know from verse 29 that God told them they could eat of every herb bearing seed and every tree that yielded fruit with a seed. No fruit of any tree was forbidden to mankind.I know from verse 30 that the fowl of the air and every thing that creepeth on the earth that every green herb was given for meat.I know from verse 31 the light period that began with the end of the dark period of the fifth day and ended with the light period of the seventh day was the sixth day.

Peg writes:what do you mean by the light period and when (which verse) are you saying was the light period

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Straggler writes:The fact that you think it is "affirmed" rather than simply stated, asserted, suggested or even metaphorically implied is the root of the problem

Straggler writes:Do I need to rebut anything if the bible seems to "rebut" itself?

Straggler writes:ICANT is it possible that the bible is simply telling the same story twice in ways which are inconsistent? On what basis do you reject this seemingly obvious conclusion?

hotjer writes: Torah. If you have no further interest in discussing this subject, then simply tell me after this respond.

hotjer writes: I guess they simply wanted to believe that Moses wrote the Torah

hotjer writes:You ask me why it was accepted Moses did write the Torah for over 3000 years?
3000 years have not passed yet, but small detail

hotjer writes:You ask me why we do expect consistent content. Here I assume Moses do not contradict himself. Furthermore, it is human nature to have a personal writing style — not eight different. I have already giving examples of few contradictions

hotjer writes: The strongest evidence establishing the documentary hypothesis is that several different lines of evidence converge.

Catholic Scientist writes:Just thought I'd point out another example of your inconsistency

Catholic Scientist writes:Like I said, its ridiculous... More worthy of ridicule than any actual consideration.