Creation as presented in Genesis chapters 1 and 2

Your assumption: Because the man in Genesis 2:7 is said to be made of the dust of the ground and the man in Genesis 1:26 DOES NOT mention dust of the ground, therefore it cannot be the same man.I respectfully regard this as a false assumption.
The first human man is being described in both passages. Your assumption: Beause chapter one concludes with the creation of man after the making or creation of lower lives and Genesis 2:7 stresses a different sequence and does not mention day 6, therefore, the two passages cannot be talking about the same man.I respectfully regard this as a false assumption.
The same first man is being spoken about under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It is a difference. I do not regard it as a huge difference.
And could only offer some speculations.
What is written is the word of God. My speculations upon what is written are only that, imperfect human speculations.And the more we debate about it the more I am inclined to believe the passages do not contradict one another as much as they contradict man's reasonings.Too bad for us. That is another assumption which I do not share. Not being able to reconcile every detail of the two passages does NOT have to mean that two different events are being revealed.Let me ask you if you have ever come across an article by Robert Govett entitled "The Twofoldeness of Divine Truth"? If I can find it among my books I would like to quote a few paragraphs of it for you. ICANT, the word concerning male and female in Genesis 1:26,27 is brief. The details of this matter are not revealed in THAT particular passage.In Genesis 2:7 it becomes very important that the details of male and female be given special attention.The difference in emphasis does not mean two first men are being revealed. I would like to dicuss this in more detail latter for the formation of the wife from the man is a window into the very eternal plan of God.Out of the one came two. Then the two were brought together to be one. This is a little window into the whole revelation of the Bible. I'll have to continue latter.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Hi PD, So now you want to discuss your creation story in my thread leaving everything I have affirmed the KJV Bible, LXX, and Hebrew text says.The KJV text says nothing about a Priestly writer and what he wrote.Your assertion that: "The A&E story was written as a just so story, not an actual event" is not supported by the text.God Bless,

---

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

ICANT,I wrote above: I will propose some ideas on reconcilation. I do not expect that they will satisfy you completely. They may not satisfy me completely.But give me a little time and I will propose some ideas toward limited reconciliation.

Hi Jay, I have made no such assumption.The man formed from the dust of the ground took place in the day the Lord God created the Heaven and the Earth. He was also formed before any other life form.The man created on day six was not created in the day God created the Heaven and the Earth. I make no such assumption. I do assume this is the message of God recorded by Moses.This verse says these...This means the following things.
are the generations of the Heaven and the Earth in the day the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.A day must be a light period or the combination of a light period and a dark period as declared by God in Genesis 1:5. You don't regard one man coming into existence before everything else and a man coming into existence after everything else a huge difference.What would you consider a huge difference? I am not asking that all details be reconciled only one.Genesis 2:7 Man was formed before any other living forms.Genesis 1:27 Man was created after all living life forms.Impossible that the two scriptures are talking about the same man. I have read about the justification put forth to justify certain teaching of a certain Minister of the Age. I eagerly await your explanation of how the two men can be the same given the difference of their beginning to exist.Genesis 2:7 Man was formed before any other living forms.Genesis 1:27 Man was created after all living life forms.How can these be the same man?God Bless,

---

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

ICANT,You are really causing me to throw myself into Genesis. That can't be wrong. And sometimes I'm not sure I understand what your position is when you say you make no such assumption.I would like therefore to ask you a few questions.1.) Do you believe that an individual female can be deduced from these words (Gen. 1:26), who was the first mother of all other human beings? " ... in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them" (Gen. 1:27)2.) Do you believe that before Eve, who is called "the mother of all living" (Genesis 2:20) there existed other prior living human beings ?3.) Before Adam was put into a deep sleep for the extraction and building of his wife would this statement be true? " ... male and female He created them." (Genesis 1:27)4.) After the sleep of Adam and the extraction and building of his wife would this statement be true? " ... male and female He created them." (Gen. 1:27)5.) If the answer to question #4 is YES is it possible that Genesis 2:18 through 25 could have been events to occur on day # 6 of Genesis chapter 1 ?6.) Is it possible that the seer, prophet, or revelator of Genesis chapter two could be recounting to us things as they were SHOWN to him or her without being aware of other creation accounts ?7.) If that seer or prophet or visionary was faithfully recounting to us things AS THEY WERE REVEALED to him or her, would that person be being deceptive or be being faithful and truthful ?8.) Is it possible that the forming of animals from the ground in chapter two is being related to us WITHOUT REGARD to what DAY thier FORMATION occured ?9.) Is it possible that the animals being brought to Adam for naming in Genesis 2, is related to us WITHOUT REGARD to on what day those animals were created ?Is that POSSIBLE?10.) Is it possible that it is more important to the author of Genesis chapter 2 that we see Adam as the one who named the animals RATHER than we see on WHAT DAY each of those animals came into existence ?12.) Does God have within His RIGHT to reveal so much to one seer and so much to another seer and simultaneously LEAVE OUT other information to BOTH seers ?13.) If BOTH seers or prophets pass on to us WHAT THEY WERE SHOWN ONLY, is that still a revelation of truth from God ?14.) Is it possible that the geneology is tracing a line from Adam to Jesus Christ that it would omit person's who died and produced no offspring ?15.) Is it possible that the geneology tracing a line from Adam to Jesus Christ would omit someone who SPIRITUALLY is unworthy in God's eyes, to be associated with Jesus Christ ?Your thoughts on these few questions would help me to understand your position.ThanksEdited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Hi Jay, Here is the entire verse: There is no place it mentions this woman being the mother of all other human beings. Nor anywhere else in Genesis 1:2-31.In fact this verse does not limit the created to 1 man and 1 woman, them could have been many. There was no woman before the woman made from the rib of the man who was formed from the dust of the ground. No. The woman in Genesis 1:27 was not made from the rib of the man. She was bara created at the same time the man was bara created. Since they were bara created there was no material used in their creation, as there was with the man in Genesis 2:7 and the woman made from his rib. No. Because This man was formed from the dust of the ground before all other living forms and the woman was made from his rib after all living life forms were formed from the ground.Also the man and woman in chapter 2 was formed and made in the DAY the Lord God created the Heaven and the Earth. That was prior to Genesis 1:2 which was prior to Genesis 1:27. It is not possible as these events took place in the DAY the Lord God created the Heaven and the Earth. If this information was supplied by anyone other than Moses it is a Myth.
Moses spent 40 days on the Mount with God during which time God revealed what He wanted him to write in a book that was to be placed in the side of the ark and read every 7 years.That is not to say that copyist have not inserted their bias here and there. That is the reason the Holy Spirit is required to understand the Word of God. I believe what Moses wrote was given to him by God Himself word by word.But we don't have what Moses wrote. We have copies of copies of copies of copies etc. There was only one DAY as everything in chapter 2 was created in the same light period (DAY) There was only one DAY as everything in chapter 2 was created in the same light period (DAY) What difference does it make to the author? Man, vegetation, creatures, fowl and woman all came into existence on the DAY the Lord God created the Heaven and the Earth. Genesis 2:4-25 lists the order in which these events took place. But Moses wrote the entire book of Genesis. There was only one writer. What is the relevance of this question? A linage stops with no offspring. No such person exists. David is in the linage of Jesus. There is not many people in the Bible that was more despicable than he was.Now if you were asking in reference to Cain he was not a modern human and therefore could not be in the linage of Jesus. That linage is only 6,000+ years old.God Bless,

---

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

It was not my question whether it was mentioned or not. My question was could a particular women be "deduced" by you from the verse ? The question was whether one women could be deduced from the passage or not. I didn't ask if that was the only deduction one could make.On this point I am still puzzled as to your belief. Thankyou. I suppose this means that any of the one or many proposed woman of Genesis 1:26 could not have preceeded Eve.Either she is indicated in Genesis 1:26 or the women in 1:26 would have to be her descendents.But since 1:26,27 refers to the creation of human male and female, my guess is that Adam's wife Eve is indicated in 1:26. How do you know that? It simply says that God created man in His image and according to His likeness. Nothing is said about the method of creation.Silence as to the method does not mean the woman could not have been made as described in chapter 2. How do you know that ?Verse 21 says that God created on the fifth day "great sea creatures" and "every winged bird" in addition to other life which swarmed the waters. You cannot insist what moments did or did not pass between these acts.Can you insist that winged birds and sea creatures had to be created at the exact same moment ? I don't think you can.And I don't think you can insist that male and female God had to have created at the same moment. Are you saying that women were created ex nihilo but the mother of all living was not ? "Created", "formed" , and "made" all can and have been used in the bringing of humanity into existence.Even the spiritual component of man is said to have been "formed" within man - Zechariah 12:1.And I think you are creating problems if you say that the woman builded from the rib of Adam was not a part of the creation of humanity.I mentioned that chapter two is a window into the eternal purpose of God. I mean in the sense that it typifies the one new man being created in Christ Jesus on the cross. Out from Him God builds His Body and His Bride.That counter part of Christ is created in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:15).On one hand the church as the new man is builded - "In whom you also are being builded together into a dwelling place of God in spirit" (Eph. 2:22)On the other hand the new man is created - "Abolishing in His flesh the law of the commandments in ordinaces, that He might CREATE the two in Himself into one new man ..." (Eph. 2:15)On one hand the corporate "new man" is being renewed into existence - "And have put on the new man, which is being renewed unto full knowledge ..." (Col.3:10) On the other hand this corporate "new man" is has been created by God - " ... put on the new man, which being renewed ... according to the image of Him who CREATED him, where there cannot be Greeek and Jew, circumsicion and uncircumcision, ... etc. ... but Christ is all and in all." (Col. 3:10,11)The Wife of the second man Christ is builded and created.
The type of the Wife as seen in Eve, is builded and created also. "Male and female He created [bara] them" (Genesis 5:2) refers not only to Genesis 1:26 but Genesis 2:22,23 as well.The Hebrew word bara may be the only word suitable to discribe creation ex nihilo. But it is not reserved only for that definition. It does have some overlaping usage with words that would not mean bringing into existence with no previous material.It is understandable that there is no human word in Hebrew exclusively reserved for that definition. The concept of ex nihilo is an idea that man would scarcely have thought of without the aid of divine revelation.Two different accounts of man coming into existence using different words, I think, should be viewed as emphazing different spiritual themes perhaps. There is no need to jump the conclusion that two different events or two humanities are involved. I agree with the no. I don't think all other living forms effect it one way or another.Before the building of the woman it could be said that God created him male only. After the building of the woman it could be said God created them male and female. I think it is simple. This does not add up. You are saying that God brought Adam and his wife into existence and at latter time created male and female humanity.Does that make sense ?You are saying that God brought the mother of all living into existence and then some time latter some of her descendents were created out of nothing.If she was the mother of ALL living then the male and female created ex nihilo would be living but not from Eve. And that would make it untrue that Eve was the mother of ALL living.That would argue that Eve is the mother of all living except the living people created in Genesis 1:26,27 who came ex nihilo. I think your theory ends up with two humanities. You have now all the descendents of Eve and a second line of all the descendents of the first female created in Genesis 1:26,27. Do you believe that Eve the mother of all living had descendents before the sixth day ?I would like to skip down to the 8th question now. I take that as a no. I take that as a no. Thanks. I guess that is a no. I don't know if that is yes or no.
I only regard you as saying only one seer was involved taking a dictation. You made an issue, I think, of Cain and Abel not being mentioned in Genesis 5. I thought that you interpreted that as evidence that the Adam of chapter two is not the man created in the image of God in chapter 1 somehow.But it has been awhile and this is really a maze you have developed. Incorrect. This is not a statement by me of the ineffectiveness of the wonderful far reaching grace of God.It is true that many unsavory characters were surprisingly listed in the geneology of Jesus Christ in Matthew. There is no question that the grace of God is evidenced.However, it is also true that some people were omitted. For example in the section of the kings from David to the deportation to Bacylon, Jehoiakim was omitted in Matthew 1:11. Compare verse 11 to 1 Chron. 3:15-16. The reason could be because Jehoiakim was made king by Pharoah of Egypt and collected taxes for Egypt I don't know how you know that. I do not rely on Ussher's chronological calculationsOnly 130 years of the father of Cain elapsed within which the same man begot Seth. So Seth is a modern man but Cain is not ?I don't follow you. It seems to be boiling down to the interpretation of YOM [English day] in Genesis, I think.Thanks for your replies.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Also, should we always be that specific about the usage of a word simply because it carries a specific meaning. IOWs should we always carry it to or apply its strictest meaning when it is used in a sentence.Here is what I mean. Yes I understand that bara means something from nothing, but now compare that usage of the word with what is written in Hebrews 11:3"By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.So in essence (nopun intended, Nothing could simply mean nothing from our perspective, correct.? It doesnt have to mean nothing, nothing.Secondly there is the logical perspective that if Gods power or essence is and has to be involved in the process, there is still something being used (Gods essence, knowledge and power) to bring materialabout, correct?On of the fatal mistakes people make, I believe, is over application of definitions,without consideration forwhat the rest of the Bible or text says or how it is being used.Example, "Commits adultry".
Just a thoughtDBEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Hi Jay, I thought my answer gave an unequivocal No answer. Here is your question.

quote:

---

1.) Do you believe that an individual female can be deduced from these words (Gen. 1:26), who was the first mother of all other human beings?

---

Short answer NO.Explanation: The woman created in Genesis 1:27 is never said to be the FIRST MOTHER or the MOTHER OF ALL OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.The word Eve was used 4 times in the Bible.

quote:

---

In Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

​

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

​

2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

​

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

---

The Hebrew word chay in Genesis 3:20 translated of all living means living. 'Of all' is added by the translators. And you guess wrong.The woman called Eve did not exist in Genesis 1:2-2:3.The woman called Eve existed in Chapter 2, 3, and 4 of Genesis, and was formed from the rib of the man who was formed from the dust of the ground. I know the woman created in Genesis 1:27 was not formed from the rib of the man in Genesis 2:7 because Genesis 2:7 took place in the DAY the LORD God created the Heaven and the Earth.That means they existed in the DAY that took place in Genesis 1:1.So the silence in Genesis 1:27 is a moot point. They were both bara created. No material was listed as used in their creation. In bara creation God speaks and the resulting creation exists. No.But I can insist that they were not all created. The only thing created in this verse is great whales.Everything else is called forth after their kind. That means that they had already existed and God was just calling them forth from the water after their kind. Others were called forth out of the Ground after their kind. Just as vegetation was called forth from the seed that was on the ground. I am saying the man formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 is your pre-adamic race of people that peopled the earth millions of years ago. (millions of years is not correct but the best I can describe it now).The man is Genesis 2:7 was formed from the dust of the ground.
The Hebrew word yatsar was translated formed.The woman in Genesis 2:22 was made from the rib of the man that was formed from the dust of the ground.
The Hebrew word banah was translated made.Mankind in Genesis 1:27 was created male and female.
The Hebrew word bara' was translated created.They all came into existence by a different method.If the Word of God is true they are different people. Since God can not lie I have to adjust what I have been told all my life to conform to God's Word as it is true. And you have 0 support for that assertion. You keep making that assertion. Where is your argumentation to support your assertion. Better yet wherre is the text that supports your assertion.The female in Genesis 2:22 was made from the rib of the man that was formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7. The Hebrew word bara' is the only word used concerning something being spoken into existence.It has also been translated by the translators as words other than created. But the translators did not write the Hebrew texts. Thinking sometimes can be dangerous. Someone here at EvC told me that. Then they told me to stop thinking. I haven't so don't. Just try to channel it in the right places.A man that is formed from the dust of the ground and the breath of life breathed into him producing a living being.Is a lot different than a man being spoke into existence male and female. No.You could say God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils and he became a living being. Only man existed.No.You could say God formed man and made woman. I think that is simple.There is nothing said about God creating either of these human beings. It doesn't add up if you believe there is one story that took place 6,000+ years ago.If you believe as you say you do that there was a race of people prior the modern man then it makes perfect sense.No race of people could exist that God did not place on Earth.So yes God formed a man and made a woman out of his rib. These people inhabited the Earth for one DAY of undetermined existence of that light period called day.Then God created mankind in His image/likeness which we have descended from some 6,000+ years ago. God never says Eve is the mother of all living. The Hebrew text does not even say 'of all'. It just says mother living. the 'of all' is supplied by the translators. You could say Eve was the mother of all living people except the man in Genesis 2:4-4:24.There is no Eve in Genesis 1:2-2:3 so no we do not have a single line of all living today. It is possible but not necessary as there could have been a thousand couples created in Genesis 1:27 there is no number given or inferred. I believe that Eve as called by the Man formed from the dust of the ground had children who had children who had children who had children who had children who had children who had children
who had children who all died prior to Genesis 1:2. Which was 5 days before the sixth day began. God can do anything He wants to do.There was only one man responsible for the writing of the Torah.I assume there was things added by Joshua and probably many things changed and added by transcribes and translators over the years.All you have to do to know that is still happening is go to the Bible book store and see how many new Bibles are on the shelf.In fact the mentor you follow has added his own beliefs to what He teaches.That is something I am trying to avoid as I try to find exactly what the text we have says. The issue is Cain was the firstborn son of the man formed from the dust of the ground thus his lineage would have been used in the generations of that man.Seth was the firstborn son of the man created in the image/likeness of God and that is why the generations are given through his lineage. So Matthew leaving him out in his account removed him from the family tree.I don't think so. So when did Genesis 1:2-2:3 take place? The man who was formed from the dust of the ground who was Cain's father has no age ascribed to him at all. In fact Cain or none of his descendants have any age ascribed to them.The only man that has an age is the man created in Genesis 1:27 and his descendants, they have ages ascribed to them. It has nothing to do with the interpretation of YOM.It has everything to do with what the text says.Genesis 1:1 says: Genesis 2:4 says: Genesis 2:5-4:24 gives us those generations of the things that happened in the DAY the LORD God created the Heaven and the Earth.Does Genesis 1:1 tell us God created the Heaven and Earth?Does Genesis 2:4 tell us these are the generations of the heavens and the earth in the DAY they were created?In this entire thread I have been affirming that there is a story given in Genesis 2:4-4:24 of the creation of the Heaven and Earth and the placing of mankind and other creatures on the Earth.I have also been affirming that there is a story in Genesis 1:2 where we find the Earth that was created in Genesis 1:1 covered with water. Which God did some remolding too and made it inhabitable for mankind and other creatures. The generations of this man created in Genesis 1:27 is given beginning in Genesis 5:1.God Bless,

---

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi DB,Why the changed of hats? At the risk of getting into deep water with jaywill I will comment on the above statement.Actually there is no such thing as an absence of anything. (nothing)So the writer of Hebrews was correct when he said "what is seen was not made out of things which are visible."Now at the risk of being called a Pantheist I will state:God is existence. God claimed to be everything that is when He said "I AM".That being said God had all the energy He needed to create everything we see and don't see. He also had enough energy to keep everything together.So everything that we see was created from energy provided by God.I really do not want to get into a discussion of this philosophy as it will lead way of from what I am trying to accomplish in this thread. But I thought I would bring it up for clarification as to what creation is.You and others know I am on record as saying I believe everything we see and do not see has always existed in some form.God Bless,

---

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I do not believe that because some things written in chapter two which are not also written in chapter one, two different beginnings of humanity is what is revealed.I also do not believe that before God created man and commanded them to multiply in Genesis 1:28 they had already been made, formed, created, shaped, what have you, and multiplied.Your interpretation seems to suggest multiplication before the creation of man and the mandate to do so. I do not think that because "Eve" was not used in Genesis one therefore two different initializations of humans on earth is being taught - one in chapter one and another in chapter two. I do not see how your quotations effected the issue. And "mother of all living" and "mother living" add up to Eve being everyone's great - grand matriarch.The information is interesting but supplies no additional credence to the matter, IMO. That is your assertion. I have not seen it justified yet. And I am considering your evidence seriously. I don't believe that because Eve is not mentioned by name in chapter one that that chapter could not be talking about the first woman created. I see only two possible alternatives with your interpretation.1.) Before the creation of woman and the multiplication of them another woman was created previously who is called the mother of all living.2.) After the creation of woman and the multiplication of them a woman was created and assigned to be the mother of all living.Both theories are unsatisfactory to me. I you have a third possibilty you can explain it. In my Recovery Version Genesis 5:1 reads this way: "This is the book of the generations of Adam. When God created Adam, He made him in the likeness of God."

​

And a footenote at the bottom of the page says [Lit., In the day]. And Genesis 2:4 reads: "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created. When Jehohavh God made earth and heaven ..."

​

And a footnote at the bottom on "When Jehovah" says [ Lit., in the day] I know that you would not insist that yom has only one possible meaning. So your view depends on how one understands Genesis 2:4 and 5:1, I think for the most part. That doesn't prove that we know man and woman were created together in the same instant. Even if no material WAS used it STILL does not prove that the male and the female were [bara] created together in the same moment.No pre-existing material used neither proves that the great sea creatures and the winged birds were created at one moment. We cannot know that "every living animal that moves, with which the waters swarm" (1:21) were all created together in one moment. Okay.Still you cannot know that a male and a female whale were created at the same moment. You can only speculate. You can only express your preference of belief. Maybe I'll come back to this latter. I see. To state this up front would have saved some time. I suspected something like this was your view.I think I can stop here with this view. I am aware of many of these nuances. How do you know that ? We are discussing various interpretations of the Scripture. I have plenty of support. I already gave you some.
Here is more: These are not just nice words of Paul to be read at wedding ceremonies. He says that he speaks concerning Christ and the church. His burden is deeper than just giving good marriage advice.The church is Christ's own body which He nourishes and cherishes with the rhema of the water of the living word. She came out of Christ as Eve came out of Adam. And she is presented to Him for His eternal romantic union.The Bible concludes with a marriage of the Redeeming Godman and a city New Jerusalem which He has produced out of His redemptive death and resurrection. This is like the sleep of Adam to produce the bone of his bone and the flesh of his flesh for the building of Eve.Do you think we should start a whole new thread on this matter ? I am shocked that you have not become a little familiar with the typology of Genesis chapter two.Do you think it is insignificant that Paul quotes Genesis 2:24,25?Zero support ?? Zero support that the typology of Genesis chapter two touches on God's eternal purpose ? Genesis 5:2. And you will react with an assertion of your own that Genesis 5:2 cannot be refering to the previous history of Adam just as been discribed in chapter two. You do this based on your interpretation of the YOM there.Genesis 5:2 is my ground for saying that God created the woman. "Male and female He created them ..."And the reason I know Moses is speaking of the Adam of chapter two is because the flow of history in the next verse continues quite normally: "Male and female He created them, and He blessed them and called their name Adam, on the day when they were created.

​

AND ... ADAM lived one hundred and thirty years and begot a [son] in his likeness according to his image, and he called his name Seth." The clock does not stop between verse 2 and 3. We do not suddenly transcend into some existential realm of abstraction.
Verse 2 speaks of Adam's creation, male and female CREATION, and the very next breath tells us how long Adam lived before he fathered Seth. Do you read and write ancient Hebrew fluenty ?I do not. I depend upon scholars who do. And they do not always agree among themselves. I have been praying about this felloswhip. Yes it is different. But man is a three part being - spirit and soul and body (1 Thess. 5:23). So I would not be suprised that some of each would be envolved in man's creation.What I think I hear you saying is that the man and woman formed in chapter two were pre-human. I think you are going to paint yourself into a corner on the ledge of a cliff.In fact much more burden of Moses seems apparent in writing chapter two through five about this so-called proto, pre-human false start. If he is not the real thing why didn't Moses extend his talk from Genesis 1:26,27 discribing the history of your "Real McCoy" man and woman ?Now I have an artistic temperment. And I am all for innovation, originality, and not following blindly the traditional herd.But I think you were informed rightly in so far that Genesis does not talk about two different starts of the human race.I have to stop here.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Jaywill,I think you need to adjust some of your quotes in the above message. You have "jaywill writes" but some of the quote belongs to ICANT. You look like you're talking to yourself. Thanks
AdminPD

Me neither,I was simply pointing out that while words have meanings, they can be over used,so as to miss the true meaning of the writer, possibly.I dont 'see' the sharp distinction you are making about two creations of humans, did you read that somewhere or think of it on your own?Could you be making a distinction that does not exist?Please continue, with JaywillDBEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Hi Jay, Then you don't believe the Bible when it says:God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and he became a living being.God made woman from the rib of the man.God drove out the man.Conceived and bare Cain.You are entitled to believe whatever you choose. Then explain how the woman in chapter 1 who was created can be the woman that was made from the rib of the man formed from the dust of the ground. Number 1 is close.
The only problem is that the woman called Eve was made not created from the rib of the man formed from the dust of the ground.Can you understand the difference in God taking the dust of the ground and making a form then breathing into that form the breath of life into that form and it becoming a living being,
And
Speaking and mankind appearing in the image/likeness of God male and female? Why wouldn't I insist on yom meaning what God said it meant.
God call a light period day. God called darkness night. God called the combination of a period of light and a period of darkness the first day.
You can call it anything you want I will accept God's definition. Are you saying God who spoke and the universe and Earth existed can not speak and mankind exist male and female even in the millions if He desired, or that He could not speak and thousands of whales male and female exist? The Bible tells me so.One was formed from the dust of the ground
One was made from a rib.
One was spoke into existence.
Yep 3 different ways. But what do they have to do with the creation story? I see no typology in the history of the day the Lord God created the Heaven and the Earth.
In some of my wildest moments I still see nothing but Moses telling us what happened in the DAY the LORD God created the Heaven and the Earth.BTW that is what the Bible says. Yes there are a lot of disagreements.
And yes I read and write Old Hebrew and Chaldee and have been studying it since I started college in 1965 spending 6 years in Hebrew classes.
I did that so I would not have to take what someone told me it said. The man and woman created in the image/likeness of God is nowhere said to have a soul.If we are made in the image of God we have a Mind God is all knowing. We have a body as Jesus had a body, and We have a spirit as the Holy Spirit is spirit. That makes us a triune being. I have in no place said they were pre-human. I said they were your pre-adamic race.
They were human just not modern humans.
They were not created in the image/likeness of God.
They were formed and made then produce offspring.
We got all kinds of fossils that prove they existed. In this thread I am affirming that there is a creation story in Genesis 1:1-Genesis 2:3. The history of the man created in the image likeness of God begins in Genesis 5:1......I am affirming there is a creation story in Genesis 2:4-4:24 which is the history of what happened in the DAY the Lord God created the Heaven and the Earth which was recorded in Genesis 1:1.
God Bless,

---

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi DB, I was born again August 18, 1949.On December 7, 1949 I presented a devotional on prayer meeting night. We only had a preacher on Sunday so different ones presented a lesson or devotion on prayer meeting night. I had agreed to present a devotion on this night.I had been saved only a little over 3 months and was 11 years old as my birthday was in September.I presented the same things that night that I have presented in this thread.The only sermons I had ever heard about creation was that In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth. God said it and that settles it.My pastors were farmers in their 60's and older so most of them had no formal education and one had a 3rd grade education. So their message was plain vanilla. Obey God and trust Him or spend eternity in Hell.Needless to say the next time I spoke in that church I was 65 years old.I have no reason for having the message that I have as I don't need it. I believe Genesis 1:1 so I have no problem with the rest of the Bible.But I have this driving desire to search out these thoughts and share them with others.It seems so simple and plain to me and yet no one agrees with me.But I can take a room full of 12 year olds and have them start reading at Genesis 1:1 and tell them to stop when they reach a verse that refers to Genesis 1:1 and the majority will stop at 2:4 and say this one.I have even done it with adults and they stop at 2:4. But when I go on to explain that the verses from there on is telling us what happened in the DAY the LORD God created the Heaven and the Earth they balk and say no the creation story in in chapter 1 and this one is the same one.What we have believed all our lives is hard to shake off.I am coming down to the end of my journey and am in the process of putting these things down on paper in a book. The problem is I have over 2000 pages and have a lot of trimming to do to get it where people will sit down and read it. Sure I could.I could also be a brain in a jar in some creatures lab and all these things just information that is fed into that brain giving me the illusion that I am sitting here typing this message to you.

---

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."