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Author Topic:   archaeology and evolution
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 8 of 96 (574447)
08-15-2010 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by archaeologist
08-15-2010 7:59 PM


if evolution were true we would be finding evolutionary tales, bedtime stories, myths in the ancient records along with tales of intermediary species, and so on.
Why?

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 26 of 96 (574555)
08-16-2010 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Huntard
08-16-2010 9:37 AM


the babylonians had batteries thus they had electricity.
Evidence?
Ambiguous at best.
Still, that's more than there is for the rest of his gibble.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 27 of 96 (574562)
08-16-2010 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by archaeologist
08-16-2010 5:07 AM


the babylonians had batteries thus they had electricity, they (all ancients) had flush toilets thus they knew about germs, bacteria and viruses. they had doctors and dentists thus they had theories of disease. they may not have mentioned the word 'americas' but they traveled to the land, we have roman wrecks off the coast of south america, thus there was a new world. and they had astronomers who charted the stars which means neptune would be included for it is in the heavens as well.
as for atoms, who knows, the minoans were known for having telescopes, they could have had microscopes as well but since their civilizatin was destroyed we may never know.
Well, hold on a minute.
You claim that the ancients had electricity without leaving any written records of it, that they had the germ theory of disease without leaving any written records of it, that they knew where South America was without leaving any written records of it, that they knew about Neptune without leaving any written records of it, that they had telescopes without leaving any written records of it, that they had microscopes without leaving any written records of it ...
So on what basis can you then claim that they didn't have knowledge of evolution? Because there are no written records of them having done so?
You seem to have vitiated your own point, such as it ever was.
And it's not much of a point. It's no good test of a scientific theory to see if the ancient world knew about it, as we can see by looking at the written records that did survive. Look at Aristotle's notions about gravity and planetary motion, for example. All the information we do have suggests that while they knew some things they were hopelessly wrong about others.

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 Message 29 by archaeologist, posted 08-16-2010 5:45 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 32 of 96 (574590)
08-16-2010 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by archaeologist
08-16-2010 5:45 PM


how do you thinkwe know about it?
We don't know about it. That's why you were obliged to make it up.
This is why there are no written records supporting your fantasies.
This is why you can produce no written records supporting your fantasies.
Which leads us to the interesting question of where you got this nonsense from in the first place.
along with writtenrecords
Which you are unable to produce.
we also have the actual toilets, houses with hot and cold running water
And you claim this is evidence for the knowledge of the germ theory of disease?
The Elizabethans had flush toilets. This wasn't because they knew about germs, it's because they knew that shit smells bad.
yet not one piece of evidence for evolution.
Natural selection according to Lucretius:
And in the ages after monsters died,
Perforce there perished many a stock, unable
By propagation to forge a progeny.
For whatsoever creatures thou beholdest
Breathing the breath of life, the same have been
Even from their earliest age preserved alive
By cunning, or by valour, or at least
By speed of foot or wing ...
Lucretius, On The Nature of Things, Book V
Here's Aristotle on the evolutionary ideas of Empedocles and others:
Why then should it not be the same with the parts in nature, e.g. that our teeth should come up of necessity-the front teeth sharp, fitted for tearing, the molars broad and useful for grinding down the food-since they did not arise for this end, but it was merely a coincident result; and so with all other parts in which we suppose that there is purpose? Wherever then all the parts came about just what they would have been if they had come be for an end, such things survived, being organized spontaneously in a fitting way; whereas those which grew otherwise perished and continue to perish, as Empedocles says ...
Aristotle, Physics II 8 (note that Aristotle himself did not hold this view, but it had sufficient currency that he was obliged to mention it)
There you have it --- random variation and natural selection.
Incidentally, you notice how these are real quotations of actual things that people in the ancient world really wrote down? Rather than stuff you've made up?
the ancient world does not support modern secular science in the realm of evolution.
Or nuclear physics.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by archaeologist, posted 08-16-2010 5:45 PM archaeologist has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 45 of 96 (574666)
08-17-2010 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by archaeologist
08-17-2010 7:37 AM


you simply apply your own meaning to history whether it is inaccurate or very inaccurate. people in the ancient days were not dumb andknew what caused disease, unfortunately, the dark ages left many europeans without this knowledge and they suffered from the plague.
So, you're still not going to produce any documentary evidence that supports your claims?
I guess that's because there isn't any.
But in that case it is stupid and hypocritical of you to complain that I "simply apply [my] own meaning to history", when you are simply making up your own history.
You have claimed that there are written records substantiating your fantasies. I would tell you to put up or shut up, except that being a creationist you have a third option, which is to continue to drivel out falsehoods without ever providing a shred of a shard of a scrap of a scintilla of substantiating evidence.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 53 of 96 (574688)
08-17-2010 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by thingamabob
08-17-2010 9:28 AM


Was Josephus a myth?
He did write about those events.
Leaving aside the fact that the Testimonium Flavianum is a forgery or interpolation, something that you may wish to debate, it is absolutely indisputable that Josephus was born around 37 AD (after the date usually assigned to the crucifixion) and that the Antiquities of the Jews was written in the thirteenth year of Domitian, i.e. 93/94 AD.
So even if Josephus did write the Testimonium Flavianum, which he didn't, Jumped Up Chimpanzee would still be correct in saying that it was several decades later.

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 57 of 96 (574696)
08-17-2010 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by hooah212002
08-17-2010 10:00 AM


Wow, I hadn't heard that the entire work was a forgery. I thought it was just the jesus bits.
The Testimonium Flavianum is the longer of the two "Jesus bits" in the Antiquities of the Jews, it isn't a separate work.

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 Message 56 by hooah212002, posted 08-17-2010 10:00 AM hooah212002 has replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 67 of 96 (575097)
08-18-2010 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by archaeologist
08-18-2010 5:33 PM


yet it does happen all the time and as the old saing goes, history is in the eye of the historian, which seems to apply to josephus. the only reason unbelievers do not like that comment is because it provides ancient confirmation for Jesus.
if josephus had done something similar to plato, then theunbelievers would have been trumpeting it all over and rebuking all those who claimed josephus remarks about plato were wrong.
As a matter of fact, if some copies of Josephus contained a couple of sentences in which Josephus casually mentioned that Plato was the promised Messiah of the Jews, before equally casually abandoning the subject and moving on to the next topic, then we would be equally suspicious.
The difference is that in that case so would you.
put the shoe on the other foot and compare notes and see how ridiculous unbelievers are. they have not one shred of proof that that comment is a forgery.
We have more than a shred. First there is the fact that this supposed comment by Josephus went unnoticed by such Christian writers as Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Tertullian, Cyprian and Arnobius, and is nowhere attested 'til the fourth century.
The second and more conclusive is that Josephus was not a Christian, and that historians generally do not write things that they do not believe.
---
Now, about those Minoan microscopes ... any evidence yet?

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 77 of 96 (575245)
08-19-2010 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by archaeologist
08-16-2010 5:07 AM


Γνῶθι Σεαυτόν
In message #13 of this thread archaeologist writes:
the babylonians had batteries thus they had electricity, they (all ancients) had flush toilets thus they knew about germs, bacteria and viruses. they had doctors and dentists thus they had theories of disease. they may not have mentioned the word 'americas' but they traveled to the land, we have roman wrecks off the coast of south america, thus there was a new world. and they had astronomers who charted the stars which means neptune would be included for it is in the heavens as well.
as for atoms, who knows, the minoans were known for having telescopes, they could have had microscopes as well but since their civilizatin was destroyed we may never know.
And here archaeologist writes:
i am one of the few who does support his arguments, presents evidence, and links, quotes etc
This belief must surely strain even his own capacity for credulity.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 81 of 96 (575794)
08-21-2010 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by archaeologist
08-21-2010 3:13 AM


If you're not even going to try to supply the evidence you've repeatedly been asked for in support of your absurd claims ...
... then you might be a creationist!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by archaeologist, posted 08-21-2010 3:13 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 85 of 96 (576449)
08-24-2010 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by archaeologist
08-24-2010 4:46 AM


they didn't need to, dna sequencing doesn't support evolution. they also knew the truth, evolution did not and does not exist.
there is NO evidence archaeologically or scientifically that supports evolution, nor proves it true. it is all inferred, attributed, assumed, credited, conjectured, speculated et al. you cannot prove evolution via fossils, to try to do so requires a suspension of intelligence and a lot of eisigesis.
These particular falsehoods are off-topic. You're meant to be telling untruths about archaeology and evolution, not just about evolution in general.
Now, do you have any evidence to support your inane claims about archaeology?
Perhaps you could start with the one about the ancient Minoans having telescopes.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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