Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired?

If God has to give a measure of faith to convince you to believe the Bible, then the Bible on its own must not be very convincing. If it was authoritative and truly inspired, you'd think people would have a "lightbulb moment" as soon as they read it.

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Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

ringo wrties,

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If God has to give a measure of faith to convince you to believe the Bible, then the Bible on its own must not be very convincing. If it was authoritative and truly inspired, you'd think people would have a "lightbulb moment" as soon as they read it.

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Consider getting a Christmas present sometime that you never open.The measure of faith lightbulb moment must be received and opened before one can have it. Then one grows in that faith until our Lord calls us home to be with Him in eternity.Edited by John 10:10, : No reason given.

But people do open the Bible. The problem is that when they open it, they don't all agree on what the gift is. Some use it as a doorstop, some hang it on the wall as a decoration, some use it as a cookbook. It does a poor job of communicating what it is.

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Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

I personally had one of those "light bulb" moments reading the Bible! I had been baptized a year before when I decided to read what I was supposed to believe. I quickly found that I couldn't believe any of what I was reading, so I realized that I couldn't be a Christian. That was about 45 years ago and I've been an atheist ever since. Best decision I could have made and I owe it all to reading the Bible!

ringo wrote,

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But people do open the Bible. The problem is that when they open it, they don't all agree on what the gift is. Some use it as a doorstop, some hang it on the wall as a decoration, some use it as a cookbook. It does a poor job of communicating what it is.

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If you and others want to use the Bible as a doorstop, wall decoration, or cookbook, that is your choice. Many actually eat the recipes of the Bible, receiving God's plan of salvation for man through our Lord Jesus Christ.O taste and see that the LORD is good ; How blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him! (Psa 34:8)

dwise1 wrote,

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I personally had one of those "light bulb" moments reading the Bible! I had been baptized a year before when I decided to read what I was supposed to believe. I quickly found that I couldn't believe any of what I was reading, so I realized that I couldn't be a Christian. That was about 45 years ago and I've been an atheist ever since. Best decision I could have made and I owe it all to reading the Bible!

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You got it backwards in the first place. Water baptism is an outward testimony of an inward "born again experience" (John 3:3-7) that has already taken place in your heart.

Participants,These are the questions from the OP.1. Was it possible for these imperfect men to produce a record that is actually Gods message?2. How do we know they did not write of their own impulse, but were inspired by God as they claim?3. How do we know the writings we have today are the same as they were written by the original men who wrote it.Discussion should be along those lines. Please adjust accordingly or the thread will be closed. Please direct any comments concerning this Administrative msg to the Report discussion problems here: No.2 thread.

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Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate

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1. Was it possible for these imperfect men to produce a record that is actually Gods message?

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2. How do we know they did not write of their own impulse, but were inspired by God as they claim?

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3. How do we know the writings we have today are the same as they were written by the original men who wrote it.

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(1) Yes!(2) Because 40 different writers wrote 66 books of the Bible over 1500+ years presenting God's love and salvation message to man that has been working for New Testament Believers for 2000 years. Show me one other example of any other book ever written by men that can compare with the Bible?(3) Because the same things written in the Acts 2 Bibles we have today have been happening to Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ for the last 2000 years. The Bibles we have today can be verified to be accurate based on manuscripts that date back to the time of Christ.

Since the Bible changed so many times, that seems an odd argument.But I'll give it a go:Upanishads (Hindu), since at least a thousand years before Christ was born, remain profoundly important to modern Hindi.The Suttas (Buddhist), since about 500 years before Christ, report the direct words of Buddha and are central to Buddhism today.Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

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Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

Don't forget there is no such things as "The Bible", no universal Canon but rather Canons that only recognize the first five books to ones that contain over eighty books.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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(2) Because 40 different writers wrote 66 books of the Bible over 1500+ years presenting God's love and salvation message to man that has been working for New Testament Believers for 2000 years. Show me one other example of any other book ever written by men that can compare with the Bible?

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That doesn't show that the men were inspired by God and not writing of their own impulse. The writers saw a need and filled it. Remember the majority of Hebrews were illiterate, so the writers weren't writing for the masses to read. Manuscripts had to be read to the masses. Same for the NT.

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(3) ... The Bibles we have today can be verified to be accurate based on manuscripts that date back to the time of Christ.

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We don't have any original NT manuscripts dating back to the time of Christ. The NT originals weren't even written in the time of Christ.In 1707, John Mill published his book which uncovered over 30,000 variations between the Greek NT available at the time.There were accidental changes in the NT texts and intentional changes. Since there are no originals, what we have today are what scholars have decided were most likely to be what the originals were probably trying to say. Johann Albrecht Bengel introduced the rule of thumb for critics when faced with variations. As I said earlier, the decision to have only four Gospels was based on the use by the heretics and that there are four zones, directions.So we don't know that what we have today is the same as the the original manuscripts written by the original authors.The science of textual criticism doesn't mean the scholars are speaking badly about the Bible or Christianity. It is an attempt to return the manuscripts as close as possible to what scholars believe the original authors probably wrote.

Exactly. The "Bible" has changed so many times, either changing at different points for all subsequent Christians or radiating into different Bibles for different folks.To believe a Bible is divinely inspired, one has to believe not only that the many authors at many different times were divinely inspired, but that a divinely-inspired thread of editors shaped and pruned that one God-approved edition.In this area, beliefs, of course, are as legion as the number of Bibles; explicable, defensible reasons to believe, not so much.

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Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

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To believe a Bible is divinely inspired, one has to believe not only that the many authors at many different times were divinely inspired, but that a divinely-inspired thread of editors shaped and pruned that one God-approved edition.

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Then we have the textual critics that worked to return the text to agree with the oldest known copies.So scribes added or deleted as they saw fit, then scholars worked to return the works to what they feel is the closest to the oldest copies and hopefully what the original writer wrote.Were the scribes inspired or not inspired?
Were the scholars inspired or not inspired?Threats to copyists were common in early Christian writings like the one we see in Revelation 22:18-19.Origen makes the same threat in one of his writings. Copyists were notorious for changing texts.

Please show us how the Upanishads & the Suttas were wtitten by 40 different authors over 1500+ years that present present a consistent message from the start to the finish about God's salvation message to man?

Please show us how the fact that some book was written by 40 different authors over 1500+ years that presents a consistent message from the start to the finish about God's salvation message to man provides any support for the books being authoritative or inspired?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!