Obama supports Ground Zero mosque. Religious freedom or is he being too PC?

riVeRraT writes:

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It is a terrorists job to hide in plain sight.

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That's why so many Christians get away with it. The typical US terrorist is a white, Christian male.Just like you, riVeRraT.

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(not saying he is one or isn't)

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Bullshit. That's precisely what you are saying.Otherwise, why would you be so paranoid about it? Why aren't you protesting Bill Keller's little endeavour? He comes from a violent religion that has a long history of terrorist attacks here in the United States. Why aren't you concerned about him?

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But like I was saying to jar, it makes sense to investegate further to calm everyone down.

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Let's not play dumb, shall we? Since the Bush Administration already investigated and you're still paranoid about him, what more information could possibly be brought forward that would get you to calm down? You're calling him a sleeper terrorist ("It is a terrorists [sic] job to hide in plain sight.")

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WTF is the problem?

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Constitutional violations of fundamental rights to be left alone and be free from governmental intrusion.

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If they are clean, they have nothing to worry about.

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And that's why you allow everybody to observe absolutely every single moment of your life without ever demanding privacy, right? You record every single moment and send it to the government, right? I'm sure you'll feel perfectly fine in having me "investigate" you to ensure that you're not hiding something, right? After all, you're a white, male Christian.The most likely source of terrorism in the US.

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People get investigated all the dam time, over stupid shit.

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And it's wrong every single time.

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there obviously is a stir, and it should be governments job to calm the people down. Make sure, this way there can be no " I told you so"

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He already has. By people much more likely to fly off the handle over imagined things.What more could you possibly learn that will assuage your paranoia?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

Coyote writes:

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It might help if fewer Muslims were issuing fatwas and vowing to destroy the Great Satan

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Exactly how many do you think do this? And why is it you seem to ignore it when the Christians do it?

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video of folks dancing in the street when the trade towers went down didn't help.

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You do realize that the video you saw wasn't actually what it was claimed to be, yes?And why didn't you complain when Christians did it? They're still doing it. They just went to court in Kansas to keep doing it...and won.

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And don't forget the violent riots around the world because of the cartoons depicting their prophet.

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As already pointed out...what makes you think those were "riots"? After all, most of the people who died were killed at the hands of the police. It would seem that the biggest problem was the watchers.And why is it when the Christians do it, you don't call them riots?

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If Muslims truly are not aggressive towards non-Muslims, and a religion of peace, perhaps they should start acting like it sometime???

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When you start having some perspective and treat Christians the same way you treat phantom Muslims, then your proclamations about what Muslims "ought" to do might have some validity.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

Huntard writes:

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I don't know, why do some muslims want to be?

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So Taz is a terrorist?Because that's what you're saying.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

Huntard writes:

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Well, those idiots would be them then.

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Same question to you as to onifre:Who are "they"?It's so easy to be against "them" when you don't know who "they" are.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

riVeRraT responds to me:

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I am not having a panic attack.

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Did you or did you not say in Message 273: "Sacrificing our safety"? Just what do you think is going to happen if two Muslims are allowed to get together?

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I heard that fox supported it, I did not know it was monetary.

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The #2 shareholder in News Corp (you know...Fox) is putting up the money. Why don't you know this? Did you bother to do any homework before jumping in?

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I agree, Christians are dangerous.

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If you agree, why are you only singling out the Muslims? You'll have your hands full trying to keep up with the Christian crazies.

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And I am not paranoid.

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You mean you didn't write Message 273?

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I am just stating facts.

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What "fact" have you ever stated?

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But there is a reason. That is what I am saying. Haven't you been reading what I said?

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Yes. And you haven't given any reason other than paranoia.

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There is something going on

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Really? What? What, exactly, is going on?Be specific.

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and the people who are wrong, need to be found out.

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And who are these "people" you're willing to shred the Constitution for? It's so easy to be against "them" when you don't have to actually come up with any real people for "them" to be.

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Either the Muslims are wrong, or the people accusing them are wrong. They both need to be investigated, and this stupidity put to rest.

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Why does anybody need to be investigated? Just because you can't keep from hyperventilating?

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It is not right that people can falsely accuse the Muslims like they are, right?

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People are free to be foolish.Why do you think the government needs to be involved?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

riVeRraT writes:

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If someone said you were carrying something, wouldn't you expect to be searched?

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No. "Someone said" is hardly grounds for search.

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Your neighbor can report you to social services, and you bet your ass you would be under a full investigation, whether you like it or not.

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Hardly. Does the phrase "probable cause" mean anything to you?Exactly what do you think is happening?Be specific.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

riVeRraT writes:

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I guess you missed the part of the thread where I said I support the building of the Mosque.

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What does that have to do with anything? You also want Muslims under investigation. That's the problem.

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We are not talking about him

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Yes, we are. You seem to want investigations, and we have an actual person who is part of a tradition that here in the United States has a long history of violent behaviour...in fact, is responsible for the biggest terrorist attack the country had ever seen not to mention the most common source for all terrorist attacks...and you "have no idea who he is."In other words, you only seem to get upset with regard to Muslims, not Christians.

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I have not seen him in the news, and there seems to be no apparent problem in my little world.

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You do realize that those two things have nothing to do with each other, yes? Just because the news isn't covering it (and by the way, it is...the fact that you aren't paying attention is not evidence that it isn't being covered. I don't live in New York. Where do you think I learned about him?) doesn't mean it doesn't affect your little world.But let's go with it. This center also doesn't affect your little world, but you seem to want people investigated.

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I have not called him anything. I have no fucking clue who he is, or what he is about.

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But you made a general statement. Keller matches precisely the person you're complaining about. Ergo, you're calling him a terrorist.Oh, I see...it only counts when you fling your accusations at Muslims. Now that you've heard about a Christian, you're backpedaling furiously. Rather than living up to the courage of your convictions and saying this guy really needs to be kept under constant watch by the FBI, you're whining that we're somehow changing the topic.

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Great, I guess no one should ever be investigated ever, for any reason. We really need to get rid of our investigators.

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Right. That's the logical conclusion. If "someone said" is a lousy idea for governmental intrusion, then we should refuse to do anything at all.Does the phrase "probable cause" mean anything to you? Just what exactly do you think is happening?Be specific.

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No one is accusing me of anything.

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I am. I am accusing you of being a terrorist. You're a white, Christian male. You fit the profile. Surely you have no problem with being investigated, right?

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Make a valid comparison please.

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Would you know one if it bit you?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

Coyote writes:

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Who is the enemy? This guy, for one

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Huh? Australia? Dutch?Why are you ignoring the Christians in the US who are calling for the deaths of their fellow citizens? They just went to court in Kansas to be able to keep it up.And won.Where is your outrage?Why aren't you clamoring for the government to come down on the likes of Falwell and Robertson who get to have television programs where they pray for the deaths of people?Do you know who Wiley Drake is?Why is it you only seem to care when it's a Muslim in a foreign country doing it?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

onifre responds to me:

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You're asking me how I determine who goes away without what they want, well I answered you.

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Last time I checked, Park51 was not your stage. So no, it doesn't answer the question. We have a very specific scenario that has nothing to do with your profession. It would be nice if you would stop avoiding the question and answer it.

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Because it happens to "everybody."

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So? Why does something that happens to everybody mean that everybody has to lose something? Why can't the "fair" thing be that we follow what is right rather than try to maintain some sort of faux "equality"?

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Unfair would be if it happened to only one single group continuously.

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Huh? That makes no sense. We're not talking about who is getting the potshots thrown at them. We're talking about how we handle the response when potshots are thrown. Group A wants to construct something that Group B doesn't particularly like. How do we determine who goes away without what they want?

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No, you mentioned them in your post and I explained to you that we're talking about the same people.

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Incorrect. You mentioned "them" and I asked you who "they" were. You hemmed and hawed and continued to express vague generalities while I have indicated that I am referring to very specific people. I haven't named them (because there is an actual name to be had) because I am trying to determine if you actually know something about what you're talking about rather than trying to rewrite history.And you have come through with flying colors: You didn't do any background study on the subject but simply rattled off an emotional bomb without thinking. When you got called on it, you immediately backtracked and tried to come up with some sort of justification for your claim...all the while still refusing to do any actual background study on the subject.Who am I talking about, onifre? If you know who I'm talking about, you can give me the name.

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Those "some Muslims" that threatened Comedy Central, that YOU mention, are the people I'm talking about too.

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Yes, but who are they? See, when you say, "some Muslims," you don't mean any particular people but are referring to some nebulous, unknown, undefined morass of people.When I say, "some Muslims," I have a specific group of people in mind by name.If you are referring to the same people, then you can give me the name.You did do your homework before you started in, yes?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

onifre responds to me:

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Would you consider reciting antisemitic messages on Egyptian TV offensive?

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What does this have to do with anything? Are they in the US? Were they the ones who wrote into Comedy Central?Once again, you leap to vague, unnamed, undefined people. Who are the specific people you're referring to?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

onifre responds to me:

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If it doesn't have anything to do with me or what I do, then how can I be asked how I determine who goes away unhappy?

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Because as a member of society, you have a part to play in how society determines things. But surely you can understand that governmental functioning is not the same as a stand-up performance and thus, different standards of behaviour are expected, yes? Let us stop playing dumb, shall we?

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In ANY other situation other than what I can control, (1) I don't care, it's off topic and irrelevant, but (2) I don't determine things for other situations.

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Then why are you bothering to say anything at all in this thread? You don't control Park51, the people who are protesting, the governments of the city of New York, the state of New York, or the country of the United States, or the various builders, planners, and workmen involved in the project. Since you have absolutely no control and thus, "you don't care," why are you bothering to speak about it?Ah, that's because you do care.Shall we stop playing dumb.

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How can I answer your question of who goes away unhappy in reference to the mosque?

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By explaining your philosophy regarding freedom of religion, which isn't a one-night stand in Brooklyn.

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Why does something that happens to everybody mean that everybody has to lose something?

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It doesn't.

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That isn't what you said before. You said, "If it's fair, everyone will be sad at some point." Really? Why? Why does everybody have to be sad in order for it to be fair?

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Why can't the "fair" thing be that we follow what is right rather than try to maintain some sort of faux "equality"?

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Sure, why not?

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You tell me. You're the one saying that everybody is going to be sad.

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In the case with Comedy Central, and ONLY in this specific case, someone got shit on, namely, Christians. Muslims were considered before showing the image, and, they decided not to show the image in that one particular episode that DID show Jesus shitting on Bush and the flag.

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What makes you think they didn't consider Christians before showing that episode?

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That is not fair. In that case, and in this specific case only, the right thing to do IMO was to show both, or shown none.

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Now, here's the big part: Why? Can you explain your reasonings that brought you to this conclusion? Is there some legal framework you're drawing from? Use your words, onifre. I know why I came to that conclusion, but I don't know why you did because you keep refusing to elucidate your reasonings despite repeated requests for you to do so.

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Dude, pick a fucking subject and stick to it. I thought you were going on about Comedy Central, now this question seems to be in reference to the mosque.

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(*chuckle*)This from the person who brought up "censored on TV" in the first place.If you cannot understand how your own example relates to the matter at hand, then why did you bring it up?

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Na, I'm satisfied saying we're talking about the same people.

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Of course...you haven't done your homework, have no idea who you're talking about, and now that you've been called out on it, you're going to pretend that it doesn't matter.

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Me too, and it's the same as you.

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So who are they? I am not here to do your homework for you, especially since you're the one who brought it up.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

onifre responds to me:

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Who the fuck was talking to you and why the fuck would you think I was posting that in reference to our conversation?

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If you didn't want a response made to your post that you put in a public forum that invites all and sundry to respond, perhaps that wasn't the best place for you to make your statement.Especially when it shows you using the same faulty logic you've been called out on: Pointing at vague, unnamed, undefined people as some sort of threat.Who are the specific people you are referring to?

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Do you just need attention?

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You tell me. You're the one saying that if you don't have control, you don't care. Well, you certainly don't have any control over the community center in New York, so why are you talking about it here?Do you just need attention?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

Coyote writes:

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Let me repeat: Sensitivity/diversity is a two-way street.

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So why do you only complain when Muslims do it? Where is your outrage when Christians do it?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.