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Author | Topic: The Flood = many coincidences | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
anglagard Member (Idle past 866 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Deleted by Poster. Too much rambling not enough focus.
Edited by anglagard, : No reason given. The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes. Salman Rushdie This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Ek=1/2 m * v*v
Kinetic energy is 1/2 of mass multiplied by velocity that is multiplied upon itself. if the speed of a plate is 2.05 cm a year An estimate of the mass of an "average" continental lithospheric plate is 40.7x 10 21 kg or forty sextillion, seven hundred quintillion kilograms.How much does a tectonic plate weigh? - Answers So the energy would be Ek=1/2((4070000000000000000000000)*((2.05/100/356/24/60/60)*2.05/100/356/24/60/60)= 54237030.68 J of energy only by its movement not to count in the flows underneath the plates that drive them One joule in everyday life is approximately: * the energy required to lift a small apple one metre straight up.* the energy released when that same apple falls one metre to the ground. * the energy released as heat by a person at rest, every hundredth of a second. * the kinetic energy of a 50 kg human moving very slowly (0.2 m/s or 720 m/h). * the kinetic energy of a tennis ball moving at 23 km/h (14 mph). I think this time i got the math right so you see you cannot dismiss the velocity even if it is so small because the mass is so huge. Edited by frako, : No reason given. Edited by frako, : No reason given. Edited by frako, : No reason given. Edited by frako, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Architect-426 writes: Key word from your post - velocity. Since the (nil) velocity of "plates" truly cannot even be defined as velocity per se, much less translated into energy to "build" anything, then indeed plate tectonics is false in terms of creating geological features. You're making two arguments:
About your first argument, that plate motions of centimeters per year can be approximated as zero, let's say that you're an architect/builder and that you design and have constructed a house, and a year later the owner tells you that one end of the foundation of the house is sinking at a rate of 4 centimeters/year, roughly the same as the velocities of the plates in the Atlantic ocean. You tell him that 4 cm/year is so slow that it can assumed to be zero and that he can ignore the problem. He doesn't accept this, but you ignore his continued requests that you pay for remedial action, so he sues you. What do you think your chances will be in court when you argue that a foundation sinking at a rate of 4 cm/year is not really moving and that the problem can be ignored? Regarding your second argument, that the kinetic energy of plates must be zero because the velocity is so close to zero, I don't think the kinetic energy of a plate is a primary contributor to the formation of geological structures. As an example let's use a small hypothetical plate that is roughly square and 1000 km on a side. Using the 4 cm/year velocity of Atlantic plates, and assuming an average plate thickness of 10 km and a continental crust density of 2.7 gm/cm3, the kinetic energy of the plate would only be about 22 joules. A kilowatt-hour of electricity is 3.6 million joules, so 22 joules is a very small amount. There is obviously very little kinetic energy in a continental plate. Most of the energy for the construction of significant geological structures must come from the same energy that drives plate motion.
This alleged plate tectonic notion is sheer nonsense as shperical mechanics and displacement completely negate this "lateral" type of motion, and is only supported by colorful diagrams to "explain" how this supposedly happens. This is just a bald assertion with no supporting evidence. In the message you're replying to I supplied GPS evidence that plates do actually move. Can you provide any arguments based upon evidence that the plates do not move? In case it helps you, here are the links again, and you can refer to the original messages (Message 269 and Message 270) for the original context and arguments:
GPS Time Series
latitude measurements from 1999 from a location somewhere in Russia that is abbreviated as ARTU GPS Accuracy - How Accurate is it? - Maps Gps Info SCIGN Module Redirect | Southern California Earthquake Center Page not found – UNAVCO http://cws.unavco.org:8080/...heet_Iceland_GPS_2010Jul19.pdf I'm also curious how "spherical mechanics and displacement completely negate" lateral motion. --Percy
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
As I have already explained to Dr. A, the hands down deal-killer of the PT idea of alleged sea-floor "spreading" lies in the formation of the MOR's. In other words, these massive features in no manner were created by a mm/yr "sprading" of the ocean crust, especially in a "slow" manner (In fact, major geological features could never have been formed in a slow PT manner due to lack of energy).
What energy are you talking about here? As far as I know the driving forces here are thermal.
However, if the MOR formation can be better explained via the compression scenario due to axial loading, and can be modeled as such, then sea-floor "spreading" is indeed false. Do I have proof of this? Yes, and it can be demonstrated.
Okay, dynamically speaking, what is the mechanism of this expansion? Is the earth shrinking? Or is the crust accreting somewhere?
For example, in construction we design expansion joints in slabs, walls etc. because we know that under certain conditions the concrete (or brick, cmu, etc) will expand. When this expansion occurs, the slab will buckle while also forming cracks (fissures) perpendicular to the load (a result from axial loading). This true observation can be applied to the MOR formation resulting from massive global movements literally compressing the ocean lithosphere into those impressive formations.
Then you will need to explain a number of things. These would include the increasing age of the oceanic crust away from the ridge, the increasn thickness and age of sediments away from the ridge, the pattern of ages in the Hawaiian seamount chain, and the fault plane solutions for faults in the MOR. Why is there an axal valley at the MOR if the crustal plates are converging as you say? Where does the crust go after it collides with the other leading edge of oceanic crust?
Therefore, yes indeed I have a plausible alternative to the PT "spreading" concept. And one that is observed, can be tested and repeated and it makes sense.
Mmm, ... not really.
(In your post you asserted that I'm a "non-scientist", yet architecture embraces all of the sciences.
Okay, so what is your experience with geochronology?
Not to mention that God is The Architect of everything which is confirmed in the Scriptures. He asks Job a rhetorical question; "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare if thou hast understanding". )
So why do you ignore what is actually happening at the mid-ocean ridges and impose your own fantastic solution?
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
I'm also curious how "spherical mechanics and displacement completely negate" lateral motion.
I'm sure that architect has no idea about how this works, but I think it has to to with the fact that for plate motion on a sphere, you need to think in terms of spherical geometry. Basically, when two plates on a sphere are in relative motion, they converge and diverge in arcs. The velocity of convergence varies along the arc. It is kind of mind bending but, really, it's not a problem for plate tectonics. This has all been worked out despite what architect thinks.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I think this time i got the math right I made it 8600 joules using the same figures. I think you added on too many 0s to your figure for the mass. Also there are 365 days in a year, not 356. However, there is an easier and more readily graspable way of putting this: The energy is such that, over the course of a year, a lithospheric plate moves about two centimeters. That's the figure that we need to know, and it's the figure we started off with.
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
I made it 8600 joules using the same figures. lol seems a bit little tough it could be i was in a hurry. And yea the years got me im dyslectic sometimes i turn numbers around. tough still goes to show that you cannot ignore movement and say there is no energy in physics sometimes you ignore some decimal places not the whole number and still you get the approximate result not the actual one. Using the same logic as he has a cashier would not return change to him because coins hold little value and can be ignored. And that energy was only the kinetic energy (the energy required to get of something moving whiteout friction to a cretin speed).
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
edge writes: I'm sure that architect has no idea about how this works, but I think it has to to with the fact that for plate motion on a sphere, you need to think in terms of spherical geometry. My guess was that Architect was really referring to a coordinate system when he said "spherical mechanics," as if choice of coordinate system could make any difference. I long for the days when we had creationists who had thought through at least some things, instead of those here now who seem to post merely because they're offended (or outraged or whatever) by challenges to some of the specific details of their religious beliefs. --Percy
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
My guess was that Architect was really referring to a coordinate system when he said "spherical mechanics," as if choice of coordinate system could make any difference. Ah yes, the "Sacred Inch and the pyramids". Remember that well. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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b.r. bloomberg  Suspended Member (Idle past 4774 days) Posts: 14 Joined: |
geologically speaking there is more than enough water to cover even everest by a mile or two,however what makes you think it was h20??when jesus said that whoever drinks of the water that i give him mean you will never thirst for h2o molecules????!!!!!!
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
geologically speaking there is more than enough water to cover even everest by a mile or two You're talking about underground water? Well, on the same basis there's also enough water in the oceans "to cover even Everest by a mile or two" if you can persuade it to levitate out of the oceans. But otherwise not.
,however what makes you think it was h20??when jesus said that whoever drinks of the water that i give him mean you will never thirst for h2o molecules????!!!!!! No, I think that he was taking about grace or some similar theological abstraction, and I don't think that that's what the author of Genesis meant drowned all the puppies and kittens and duck-billed platypuses. I think that by "water" he meant water and by "rain" he meant rain. Of course, if you don't want to take Genesis literally, this would be a great time to stop being a creationist.
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b.r. bloomberg  Suspended Member (Idle past 4774 days) Posts: 14 Joined: |
so what did he mean,grace or whatever,or h2o.
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b.r. bloomberg  Suspended Member (Idle past 4774 days) Posts: 14 Joined: |
isn't the scripture writings inspired by the same author
Edited by b.r. bloomberg, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
b.r. bloomberg writes: isn't the scripture writings inspired by the same author Is it your position that Noah's neighbors drowned in God's grace? If not, then instead of playing 20 questions, why don't you tell us what you mean? Don't fear the shift key.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
b.r. bloomberg writes: isn't the scripture writings inspired by the same author What Jesus may or may not have said is totally irrelevant to the Biblical Flood, and the Biblical Flood has been soundly refuted. It still gets used though because it is a great way to separate ignorant Christians from their money. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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