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Author Topic:   FREE WILL....... or is it.
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 54 of 58 (60316)
10-09-2003 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Parasomnium
10-09-2003 4:59 AM


Re: Free Will?
Parasomnium writes:
quote:
If an omniscient being cannot be omnipotent, it cannot know what it is like to be omnipotent. But if it cannot know that, then it doesn’t know everything.
I think you just equivocated on the word "everything."
That is, you have started with "everything" meaning "things that are actually going to happen" and then switched to "everything" meaning "every conceivable thing."
For example, if I take out a standard deck of 52 cards and you draw one, I know all the possible results. I know "what it's like" for you to have drawn any of the 52 possibilities.
However, I don't know what card you actually drew until I look at it.
Omniscience doesn't mean knowledge about all conceptualizations because some conceptualizations are physically impossible. When you draw a card from the deck, you don't get snake-eyes. Omniscience is about knowing actualities.
If I'm a good magician, I can make you think you've had a free choice in picking your card but actually force you to draw a card of my choosing. I can "conceive" of you drawing another card, but my "omniscience" comes from knowing that you were actually going to draw the specific one you did.
Now, before the analogy runs away, let's not get into the question of my "forcing" the card upon you. An omniscient person who, upon asking you to draw a card, knows what card you are going to draw without having consciously to do anything to make you pick that card.
I agree that omniscience removes free will. But omniscience does not mean non-omniscience.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Parasomnium, posted 10-09-2003 4:59 AM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Parasomnium, posted 10-10-2003 5:42 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 57 of 58 (60706)
10-13-2003 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Parasomnium
10-10-2003 5:42 AM


Re: Free Will?
Parasomnium responds to me:
quote:
A truly omniscient being not only knows everything about what has happened or will happen, but also everything about what would happen, if things were going differently.
Why?
What point is there in cogitating about things known to be impossible?
What is the functional difference from within the system between a being that knows even phantom impossible outcomes and one that only knows what is actually going to happen?
Why include the chocolate sprinkles?
quote:
One can also know facts that have nothing to do with things happening, but rather with things being. For instance, the 10^99th digit of pi has a certain value which can be known. Nothing much happens there.
Why do you think being is a non-action?
quote:
Now, contingent on whether omnipotence is logically possible, the set of 'all knowable facts' also includes 'what it's like to be omnipotent'.
No, it doesn't. If omnipotence never, ever happens, then being omniscient does not include it.
Why cogitate on things known to be impossible? What is the functional difference within the system between a being that knows everything that ever has or ever will happen and the same being with chocolate sprinkles?
I would say that things that cannot exist do not exist and thus are not part of "everything."
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Parasomnium, posted 10-10-2003 5:42 AM Parasomnium has not replied

  
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