Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   FREE WILL....... or is it.
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 58 (30079)
01-23-2003 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Winston Smith Asriel
01-22-2003 4:51 PM


1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Winston Smith Asriel, posted 01-22-2003 4:51 PM Winston Smith Asriel has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by nator, posted 01-27-2003 11:54 AM funkmasterfreaky has replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 58 (30371)
01-27-2003 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by nator
01-27-2003 11:54 AM


God creates everyone able to choose a path. Then they are accountable for what path they chose.
He didn't create them a murderer or atheist, they chose to be a murderer or an athiest.
Free will.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by nator, posted 01-27-2003 11:54 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by compmage, posted 01-28-2003 12:30 AM funkmasterfreaky has replied
 Message 16 by Peter, posted 01-29-2003 5:48 AM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 58 (30397)
01-28-2003 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by compmage
01-28-2003 12:30 AM


That's what I've heard around here it still makes no sense to me. Just because I know someone will choose something doesn't mean I affected their ability to make that choice.
I know you still don't like that answer but your logic confuses me to no end.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by compmage, posted 01-28-2003 12:30 AM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by compmage, posted 01-28-2003 12:59 AM funkmasterfreaky has replied
 Message 52 by Agent Uranium [GPC], posted 08-04-2003 11:34 AM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 58 (30406)
01-28-2003 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by compmage
01-28-2003 12:59 AM


You still made the choice. God's foreknowledge didn't effect your decision. You made that choice.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by compmage, posted 01-28-2003 12:59 AM compmage has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Primordial Egg, posted 01-28-2003 4:35 AM funkmasterfreaky has replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 58 (30464)
01-28-2003 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Primordial Egg
01-28-2003 4:35 AM


It would be impossible if the oracle told me what choice I would make. God doesn't do this. He knows what we will choose, but does not interfere. Therefore because we don't know what he knows we still have that choice.
I cannot understand this logic you guys use to deny the idea of free-will.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Primordial Egg, posted 01-28-2003 4:35 AM Primordial Egg has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by John, posted 01-28-2003 5:52 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 58 (30475)
01-28-2003 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Bald ape
01-28-2003 5:58 PM


But you still make the choices you make. God doesn't affect that decision, he just knows. This does not have any impact on your ability to choose B over A, just that someone knows what you will choose.
I have nothing more to add to this discussion for the time being. I don't even understand the argument against free will, and I just keep repeating myself.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Bald ape, posted 01-28-2003 5:58 PM Bald ape has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Primordial Egg, posted 01-29-2003 6:19 AM funkmasterfreaky has replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 58 (30592)
01-29-2003 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Primordial Egg
01-29-2003 6:19 AM


Thanx for your reply Primordial, it did help to shed some light on your position for me.
If I could just say something about your magician analogy. The magician is trying to interfere with which card you pick, not simply holding the deck out for you to choose.
It doesn't seem to me that God is trying to trick us or fool us into picking any one card. So we choose what we choose, even if he knows what card you will choose, it was still your choice.
God lays out choice A and choice B, then he allows us to choose. What he knows, does not have an impact on what I choose.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Primordial Egg, posted 01-29-2003 6:19 AM Primordial Egg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Chavalon, posted 01-29-2003 5:53 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied
 Message 33 by Primordial Egg, posted 03-04-2003 4:28 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 58 (36504)
04-08-2003 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Peter
03-13-2003 2:02 AM


All my arguing for free will and then I find my own scriptures say different.
Romans 9:11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger."[4] 13Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."[5]
14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."[6] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."[7] 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "[8] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory
So God has mercy on whom he will have mercy. No free will.
I'm thinking that before the fall man had free will but gave it up when he brought sin into the world.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Peter, posted 03-13-2003 2:02 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Percy, posted 04-08-2003 5:09 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied
 Message 41 by Mister Pamboli, posted 04-08-2003 5:53 PM funkmasterfreaky has replied
 Message 45 by Peter, posted 04-09-2003 8:34 AM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 58 (36534)
04-08-2003 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Mister Pamboli
04-08-2003 5:53 PM


Mister Pamboli,
I see you do not agree with me on much of anything. What I was getting at is the idea of predestination, which eliminates the idea of free will. I have these scriptures which clearly state predestination. (it may prove beneficial to read these scriptures in context, I have done so and do not think I am misrepresenting them, but I do not mind being corrected)
Romans 8:29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
Ephesians 1:11In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
These are taken from the NIV translation.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Mister Pamboli, posted 04-08-2003 5:53 PM Mister Pamboli has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Mister Pamboli, posted 04-08-2003 8:56 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024