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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Annual War over Christmas -- by christians | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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The Daily Show with Trevor Noah - Season 27 - TV Series | Comedy Central US
Christianity is once again declaring war . . . and trying to play the victim . . . again:
I support the churches right to have a separate ceremony, and their right to call it whatever they want to ... I do NOT support a church telling a state or any other person what to call their tree or celebration. Enjoy Edited by Zen Deist, : addedby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) |
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi Artemis Entreri
nice try at a troll thread. Curiously, I am not aware of any winter solstice time period celebration that involves trolls. I am aware of many winter solstice time period celebrations that involve decorated trees, mostly Norse derived. Amusingly, I am also not aware of any biblical reference to decorated evergreen trees. Perhaps you do? Thus, without any such reference being made available, I do not see any reasons for Christians to get upset in anyway over calling a decorated tree a "holiday tree" -- do you? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
from
http://youtu.be/6qUmBT0gh08 (embedding disabled) Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) |
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi Dr Adequate
Jeremiah writes: Thus says the Lord. Learn not the way of the heathen and be not dismayed at the signs of the heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain. For one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold. [quibbles](1) I note that evergreen is not specified. (2) I note that midwinter festivities are not specified. [/quibbles] So the bible records that the use of decorated trees is by heathens (pagans), and that this is not to be emulated by Christians. Makes you wonder how this sits with those that claim that calling a decorated tree a "Holiday Tree" is part of the "War against Christmas" eh? Enjoy. Edited by Zen Deist, : quibblesby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi frako
I loved it as a child we have 3 guys that bring gifts and who does not like getting gifts. Presumably symbolizing the three wisemen bearing offerings for a new god? There are many midwinter celebrations that include gift giving (and feasts and trees and fire logs). Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Artemis Entreri
I am Catholic biblical references are for protestants. So you agree that
Do you agree that these yule tide customs and timing have been adopted from other beliefs? Do you agree that some Christians are trying to take over the celebrations and festivals from other cultures, traditions and beliefs? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi again Dr Adequate
Christians execute Santa. After giving him a good talking-to first. The jolly old elf was probably thinking "just shoot me already". quote: Sounds like extremist religious terrorism to me. Are they on the Homeland Security watch list? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi jar,
Benedict XVI's Christmas Message writes: "The Word became flesh". The proclamation of Christmas is also a light for all peoples, for the collective journey of humanity. "Emmanuel", God-with-us, has come as King of justice and peace. I'm confused, does this mean that Pope Benedict XVI started the Christian War over midwinter festivities by celebrating a Christ Mass at this time? http://www.vatican.va/...io_20050419_short-biography_en.html
quote: It seems to me that his proclamations were made long after Christians started taking over "Christmas" from older beliefs? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi reuh
Yes. Excellent.
No. I think that the celebrations and festivals have already been taken over. At this point, Christians or anyone who celebrates Christmas are only celebrating their own traditions. The first recorded history for a Christmas tree goes back as far as 1441. Over the years the exact specifics of the tree and celebration have changed but the overall tradition remains. I believe that qualifies as being around long enough to justify calling it their own tradition, ... Please note what I said in the Opening Post:
quote: A church can have their own celebration, but they cannot say what a US state (or other US) government celebration has to be or what it is called.
... as opposed to taking over others traditions. We have established that there are many faiths, beliefs, traditions, celebrations and cultures that occur during the midwinter\solstice\yuletide period. If in any doubt, see: Winter solstice - Wikipedia
quote: andList of multinational festivals and holidays - Wikipedia quote: In the US the "Holiday Season" generally runs from Thanksgiving to New Year's Day, and this is properly celebrated with a "Happy Holidays" greeting. Thus when a state government advertises and has a "Holiday Tree Lighting Ceremony" this is respectful of ALL faiths, beliefs, traditions, celebrations and cultures ... covering a period of time spanning the dates of many celebrations, including Christianity's birth celebration mass (even though there is no calendar day link between that purported event and the 25th of December). AND, when pundits and religious leaders talk about a "War on Christmas" - and claim that such celebrations of a "Holiday Tree Lighting Ceremony" are part of a "War on Christmas" -- they are actually talking about their war against other faiths, beliefs, traditions, celebrations and cultures. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi hooah212002,
What is solstice/christmas/whatever without bloody snow?????? This is preposterous! And the forecast here in RI is for rain and 40 degrees . . . looks at snowshoes . . . sigh Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Happy celebrations all on this celestial day.
Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) |
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi again rueh,
I hate being p.c.) but how many other holiday traditions involve tree lighting? I ask out of ignorance actually. I just believe that you should call something what it is. If you are performing a tree lighting and none of the other cultures or traditions involve the lighting of a tree. And yet they exist. I know of many people that have a holiday tree or a yule tree.
I just believe that you should call something what it is. I guess that also depends on how much you want the meaning of the name to change with the changing traditions and the way it is actually used. If you want "Christmas" to mean crass and rampant commercialism -- symbolized this year by Santa running to Target, for example, or by the "game on" adds for Best Buy, or car adds with a Santa salesman -- if you think presents under a tree are more important than other aspects of the season, say going to a Christ Mass, or family gatherings, then by all means call it Christmas . . . Curiously, I don't see that the "War on Christmas" is about defending the crass and rampant commercialism. In my mind the term "Christmas" is more under attack by it's indiscriminate use for an overblown season of crass and rampant commercialism than it is by calling the state tree a "Holiday Tree". Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Buzsaw, and a happy season's greetings to you.
So as to keep the peace in the empire he mingled some paganism into Christianity. For example, in 325, at the Council of Nicaea he persuaded those present that Easter should be celebrated by all as a holiday (holy day). This would suffice to placate both Christians and pagans since spring time was significant to some of the pagan gods as noted in the link. The link also explains why the sabbath was changed from the 7th day to Sunday, i.e. Sun-day, significant to sun worshipers. I've cited this to say that the precedence was early established in the RCC to adopt some paganism into Christianity. And this should be well known by now.
The cut and decorated tree is referenced in the OT ancient times by the prophet, Jeremiah in chapter 10. It applied to pagan worship by pagans in the nations. And thus calling one a "holiday tree" should be of no concern to Christians in general. They can still celebrate Christmas in their way and in accordance with their personal traditions.
My family has celebrated Christmas as a tradition. All of my relatives and my boys still do. I don't judge others on this count, as there are some aspects of it that can be applicable to Biblical doctrines. My wife and I have not had a tree for quite a few years now. For ourselves, we see it as something that God is not please with, as per the Jeremiah text. However, when we visit the boys or anyone else, we never bring it up or make an issue of it, unless it is something that is mutually discussed. We do exchange gifts and celebrate it, relating it to the birth of Jesus, though tis not really the season of his birth. And I fully support you in following your traditions and beliefs.
To summarize, holiday/holy day more accurately applies to both pagans and Christians, in that it can be regarded by either as a holy day. And to anyone from all the other faiths and beliefs and traditions. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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