Have You Ever Read Ephesians?

Furthermore, I think phrases like 'He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world' show something above and beyond our daily experience, but perhaps bearing on our 'future' behavior, c.f. Eph 2:10, 'For we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works...'

NIV writes:5:1 Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2 and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person-such a man is an idolater-has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Purpledawn writes:This debate is about Ephesians and Ephesians was either written by Paul or by another. I have presented the idea that it is written by another as a summary of Paul's theology.

PD writes:The authentic letters are written to specific groups and dealing with specific issues that concern that group. Paul presents his arguments to back up his instruction. Ephesians doesn't seem to provide the in-depth arguments that Paul does. I would say the arguments for what is being said in Ephesians can be found within Paul's letters.

Jazzns writes: If what you are claiming is that we should use this book as instruction to live by due to its authority imbued by God then I will question why God would use a vehicle with such uncertainty surrounding its origins for that purpose.

PD writes: I think a debate over the Universal Church Theory would be off track this thread. You can ask Phat.

NIV writes:Eph 5:1-6:1-- Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2 and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person-such a man is an idolater-has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
15 Be very careful, then, how you live-not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19 Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery-but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

jaywill writes: This I would say, that the pre-incarnated Christ is certainly God. The Christ after the incarnation, death and resurrection is the Firstborn from the dead.Christ is Head over all things before His earthly sojourn as God.
Christ is Head over all things after resurrection as God-Man.Please comment on this.
Jazzns may comment if he has a comment.Phat, are you still there ?

richh writes:To start, the word anakephalaiosasthai in Greek, translated 'to head up', has the prefix 'ana', meaning 'again'. I think that is sweet. At one time all things were all 'headed up' in Christ, then something happened in the universe and things got out of whack, but eventually all things in the heavens and on the earth will again be 'headed up' in Christ. Paul notes this to be the destination - 'Unto the economy of the fullness of the times', God's destination

Jazzns writes:If you choose accept as premises or apology:1. That the whole Bible is a unified accord of faith
2. That therefore Jesus himself is responsible for the sentiments in the Hebrew Old Testament.
3. That there is clear instruction for a man to have authority over his wife in these writings.Then your point is taken that Paul in Ephesians 5 is supported by Jesus.My only comment after my epic surrender will be that in order to gain this concordance, to have to accept as valuable the fictional horrors of the Old Testament, you lose any credibility to maintain Christianity as a source of actual truth or enduring morality.