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Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Bible Teachings or Traditions of Men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You have been told several times that an eternal person cannot die aka their life cannot end. And you've ignored my explanation that Jesus did not end when he died.
During the three days that the Bible says Jesus was dead, are you saying he was actually still in existence as a living being aka the Bible is lying? How could Jesus have made proclamations to the imprisoned spirits if he didn't exist?
So I say again, an eternal person cannot die and therefore, the fact that Jesus Christ died is evidence that he was not eternal from the get-go. Repeating yourself doesn't make it true. You haven't addressed my arguments that proves you wrong, you just say it again as if you're ignoring me.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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Faith writes: I never said what Paul said to Timothy doesn't apply to me today, I assume it does. All I said was that it was said in the context of CHURCH and this isn't church. OK here is the quote in context.
quote: Paul goes back to Adam and Eve. He talks about women being saved by bearing children which isn't usually done in church in my experience. Now I don't think that God wants women to be always submissive to men either because I take this in the context of the entire Biblical narrative which progressively recognizes the role of women in all walks of life, because of Jesus' treatment of women and because of Paul's cultural background. There is no reason to conclude, and when you actually read the passage every reason not to conclude, that Paul just meant it in the context of church. However, once again you don't read the Bible as inerrant when it doesn't conform with your own views. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You asked for evidence of Romanist designs to dominate the world. Well, first of all they aren't going to come right out and say it until they are sure it's in their grasp so you have to understand from various clues that this is their goal.
Let's start with their contention that the Pope has the RIGHT to rule the world. Anecdotal: Protestant girl who is a student at a Jesuit university told a speaker on the subject of Jesuitism that one of her Jesuit professors had informed her that whether she knows it or not she is under the authority of the Pope as are all people. From the Twentieth Century Encyclopedia of Catholicism, NY 1959, Vol 77, pp37-38 (in Robbins, Ecclesiastical Megalomania, pp 122-123):
Whoever seeks to evade the authority of the Vicar of Christ...thereby impairs the authority of the Christ Himselof. The King of kings has established us on Earth as his universal representative and had conferred full power on us by giving to the prince of the apostles and to us the power of binding and loosing on Earth not only all men whatsoever, but also all things whatsoever... The power of temporal government cannot be exercised outside the church, since there is no power constituted by God outside her... And from another book, Tierney, The Crisis of Church and State, 1050-1300, pp 155-156, in Robbins, p. 123:
"'...the pope, who is vicar of Jesus Christ, has power not only over Christians but also over all infidels, for Christ has power over all... All men, faithful and infidels, are Christ's sheep by creation... The pope has jurisdiction and power over all de jure though not de facto. So the Pope is considered to have authority over everyone and everything. Right now they don't have the power to enforce it, but what if they did? They've thoroughly justified to themselves the right to do so. I'm no fan of Ayn Rand, but in this same book by John Robbins, Ecclesiastical Megalomania, 1999, 2006, p. 195, he quotes her as writing in 1967, in an article titled "Requiem for Man," in Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal, 315:
The Catholic Church has never given up the hope to re-establish the medieval union of church and state, with a global state and a global theocracy as its ultimate goal. In recent years they've been taking a strong interest in the European Union, and they've written quite a bit in support of World Government. They have Jesuit-trained men positioned all over the world. (And there's an interesting discussion in this book by Robbins about how the Vatican has the best intelligence and espionage operation in the world). Robbins comes to this conclusion, p. 195:
The Roman Church-State is a hybrid -- a monster of ecclesiastical and political power. Its political thought is totalitarian, and whenever it has had the opportunity to apply its principles, the result has been bloody repression. If, during the last 30 years, it has softened its assertions of full, supreme, and irresponsible power, and has murdered fewer people than before, such changes in behavior are not due to a change in its ideas, but to a change in its circumstances. Lord Acton noted a century ago that it was only when the Roman Church-State faced public opinion that disapproved of Church-State-sanctioned murder that it slowed its persecutions and attempted to speak with a voice less bloodthirsty. The Roman-Church-State in the twentieth century, however, is an institution recovering from a mortal wound. If and when it regains its full power and authority, it will impose a regime more sinister than any the planet has yet seen. Lots more where that came from. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II. 2Cr 10:4-5 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God...
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Perhaps I'll have to decide to stop posting on EvC or anywhere, stay home and just pray my heart out about all this stuff instead. But I still understand that Paul is talking about women in church, the reference to Adam and Eve is an explanation of why, this isn't church and I have no authority. The remark about childbearing seems to be some attempt to mollify the women.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
The idea that Ayn Rand is an authority on Catholicism is pretty dumb.
Have you checked out any of the quotes Robbins offers or are you just assuming that he has presented them accurately and in context ? And it must be said that the political power of the Roman Church continues to weaken. Claims of power are one thing. But if they are taking any steps to try to bring those claims to reality they aren't working very well.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5
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quote: Perhaps you should drop the arrogance instead. Quite frankly for someone who claims "no authority" you do an awful lot of trying to dictate what people should believe - with no regard for the truth.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I NEVER said anything about how Protestants outnumber Catholics! I said my beliefs represent the majority of CHRISTIANchurches and that was true then and it's true now. CATHOLICISM IS NOT CHRISTIAN. So having first decreed that only the people who agree with you are Christian, you can then proudly proclaim that the majority of Christians agree with you.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes I can, about the essentials of Christian belief, which all of them share.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The steps are not out in the open.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Nobody said Rand is an authority, but even to say what she said certainly implies that she had some knowledge about how the Catholic Church operates. You don't say such things otherwise.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: Probably because they are the inventions of conspiracy theorists. And to return to Ayn Rand, arguing that she must have knowledge because you like what she says is a pretty clear example of begging the question.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Yes I can, about the essentials of Christian belief, which all of them share. So, what are the essentials of Christian belief? Do they look anything like the Apostle's Creed?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:But you still haven't shown support for your rules on eternal beings. Talk about the same wash, rinse, and repeat? Our definition of eternal, does not constitute known rules of existence for eternal beings. It's just how we use the word eternal. To answer your question concerning Jesus, you need to answer my question on what constitutes death for an eternal being and provide support? I have asked twice: Message 218 and Message 234 Do eternal beings rely on oxygen, blood flow, nutrition, etc. to sustain their life??? We know humans need those things, but do eternal beings?? That's why I asked, where's your support that an eternal being who has taken human form, will cease being eternal because the human form died and the eternal being continued? Actually, I've already answered your questions
Message 218: An eternal being is given human form. To shed the human form, that human form must die. This releases the eternal being from that human form. It doesn't mean the eternal being ceased to exist. Only the human form ceased to exist. The eternal being continues.
Message 234: As for taking human form. I didn't say you said it, but in the the Book of John, Jesus is presented as an eternal being taken human form and you're the one saying that Jesus is an eternal being that died. The human form died and the human form was resurrected to show humans that YHWH can bring humans back to life. (1 Corinthians 15) You concentrate on the death, but by your definition, his birth would eliminate Jesus from being eternal also. Christians look forward to receiving eternal life at some point after they die. They become an eternal being of some sort. They will have a human beginning and end and then another beginning. It doesn't make them YHWH or equal to YHWH though. If one takes the view of the Book of Mark that Jesus was totally human, this makes an even better example of what God can and will do for humans. He can bring humans back to life and make them eternal beings. So really God isn't sticking to your definition of no beginning and no end when he grants eternal life. Eternal is just our perception of God, not necessarily all divine beings. We don't know his beginning if there is one and haven't seen an end yet. It isn't a rule concerning eternal beings and what they can and can't do.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Forming a one world religion is something the Popes have been working on for some time. And this new Pope is falling right in step with that aim:
Is Pope Francis Laying The Groundwork For A One World Religion? Does Pope Francis intend to help the global elite achieve their goal of uniting all of the religions of the world under a single banner? Will he be instrumental in establishing a single global religion for the glorious new age that the global elite believe is coming? After he was elected, the cover of Time Magazine declared Pope Francis to be the New World Pope, and since his election Pope Francis has made it abundantly clear that he is going to make ecumenical outreach a top priority. He has spoken of his determination to continue on the path of ecumenical dialogue, and he has already held a number of very high profile ecumenical meetings. Not only has he worked hard to reach out to leaders from various Christian traditions, he has also made it a point to try to acknowledge the mutual bonds that he feels with all other religions. For example, in one recent address he made it a point to say that he believes that Muslims worship and pray to the one God that he also worships. This all roads lead to the same God philosophy is a hallmark of the one world religion that the global elite have been slowly building toward for decades. The global elite know that even with a one world economy and a one world government, humanity will never be truly united until there is a single global religion. Unfortunately, this one world religion that they are seeking to establish is diametrically opposed to the Christianity that we find in the Bible. By throwing out Biblical truth for the sake of friendship between men and women of different religious traditions, is Pope Francis fundamentally betraying the faith that he claims to represent? If there is going to be a one world religion, there will have to be a bond formed between Roman Catholicism and Islam. They are the two largest religious traditions on the planet, and so any truly global religion would definitely require the participation of both of them. That is one reason why what Pope Francis has already had to say about Islam is so noteworthy. The following comes from remarks that he made during his very first ecumenical meeting You can read the rest HERE. ============================================================================================== Edited by Faith, : correct grammar Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
So, what are the essentials of Christian belief? Do they look anything like the Apostle's Creed? I believe I already said: Sola Scriptura, and salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Plus the Deity of Christ/Trinity and various other elements of various of the Creeds. I believe these things are shared by the churches I listed.
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