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Author Topic:   What Does Critical Thinking Mean To You?
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 143 of 339 (722206)
03-18-2014 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Phat
03-17-2014 2:05 PM


Re: God versus Long John Silver
Phat writes:
Not everyone on the right road needs to be outwardly religious but the fact is that if my particular belief is right and that Jesus is in fact the way to know God, Nobody on the right road would deny Him, though some may choose to simply behave and do good without the religious professions and theatrics.
I deny Him. I don't believe He ever existed. By your logic, I must be on the wrong road.
Phat writes:
Is it ok to deny or ignore them? Only if after examining all available evidence you honestly conclude that there is nothing to accept nor deny.
You yourself admit that there is no evidence for your beliefs, don't you? So the question should really be, "Is it okay NOT to deny or ignore them if there's no evidence for them?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Phat, posted 03-17-2014 2:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 161 of 339 (722262)
03-19-2014 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by RAZD
03-18-2014 10:22 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
RAZD writes:
Is it really critical to make such a decision when no evidence points either way?
Sometimes it's necessary to make a decision when no significant evidence points either way. You might not want to call it "critical thinking" but you still have to make the decision. In such cases, no monsters is the default position.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by RAZD, posted 03-18-2014 10:22 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by RAZD, posted 03-19-2014 5:22 PM ringo has replied
 Message 165 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-19-2014 6:59 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 166 of 339 (722327)
03-20-2014 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by RAZD
03-19-2014 5:22 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
RAZD writes:
The default position is your worldview beliefs: that will be the basis for any decision without clear answers, and it will not be critical thinking so much as blind reaction.
Worldview beliefs don't always apply. If you come to a fork in the road you have to make a choice. The bridge might be out on one road but with no evidence one way or the other, the default position is that the bridge is okay.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by RAZD, posted 03-19-2014 5:22 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by RAZD, posted 03-20-2014 5:47 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 167 of 339 (722328)
03-20-2014 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by New Cat's Eye
03-19-2014 6:59 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
Catholic Scientist writes:
ringo writes:
In such cases,
you're not being critical of your thoughts.
You can be as critical as you like. Critical thinking is not a magic wand that applies to every situation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-19-2014 6:59 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:06 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 169 of 339 (722330)
03-20-2014 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 12:06 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
Catholic Scientist writes:
The question here is, when are you employing it and when are you not.
I was responding to the question, "Is it really critical to make such a decision when no evidence points either way?" My point is that in some situations, critical thinking only takes you so far and then your default position, critically, is that absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:06 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:19 PM ringo has replied
 Message 181 by RAZD, posted 03-20-2014 5:56 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 171 of 339 (722335)
03-20-2014 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 12:19 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
Catholic Scientist writes:
I don't think making a decision in the absence of evidence is thinking critically at all.
I think if you've considered all of the available evidence and looked into ways of obtaining more evidence, then there's no way to distinguish that methodology from critical thinking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:19 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 173 of 339 (722340)
03-20-2014 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 12:35 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
Catholic Scientist writes:
If there's evidence available then it ain't an absence of evidence.
It is if all the available evidence is none.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:35 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 175 of 339 (722347)
03-20-2014 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 12:52 PM


Re: Huh?
Take two possibilities, unicorns and hippos. You look for evidence for both. You find evidence for hippos and no evidence for unicorns. You conclude that hippos exist, based on the evidence. You conclude that unicorns don't exist, based on the evidence. How is one process critical thinking and the other not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:52 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 1:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 177 of 339 (722349)
03-20-2014 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 1:04 PM


Re: Huh?
Catholic Scientist writes:
... you should reserve your judgement until you can find actual evidence of absence.
Again, my original point was that sometimes you have to make a decision now based on the evidence you have now.
The critical thinking process is the same even if you don't have the leisure to carry it through as far as you might like. It should always be an ongoing process. There is no point at which it magically becomes "critical thinking".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 1:04 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 03-20-2014 1:55 PM ringo has replied
 Message 179 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 3:56 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 182 of 339 (722473)
03-21-2014 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Phat
03-20-2014 1:55 PM


Re: No Monsters is a preferred default.
Phat writes:
My theory is that you (ringo) have chosen to accept "no monsters" as your default position due to the fact that you regard religious theistic thinking as more delusional than atheistic critical thought.
Well, critical thought - whether atheistic or not - is based on evidence. Any thinking not based on evidence is automatically more likely to be delusional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 03-20-2014 1:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 183 of 339 (722474)
03-21-2014 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 3:56 PM


Re: Huh?
Catholic Scientist writes:
Can you give me an example? Why not just not decide?
I thought I did: You're at a fork in the road; the bridge might be out on one fork but you have no evidence one way or the other. You can't just park in the middle of the road forever. You have to make a decision.
Catholic Scientist writes:
... I still think that if you're not waiting until you have sufficient evidence, for whatever reason that you have to decide, then you're not really thinking critically.
I'd say that critical thinking requires looking for evidence. You don't necessarily have to find any.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 3:56 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 184 of 339 (722475)
03-21-2014 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by RAZD
03-20-2014 5:56 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
RAZD writes:
Again, this is your "default position" - your assumption\opinion\belief - based on your worldview, and not necessarily anyone else's default position.
The topic is about what critical thinking means to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by RAZD, posted 03-20-2014 5:56 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by RAZD, posted 03-21-2014 2:48 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 201 of 339 (722548)
03-22-2014 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by New Cat's Eye
03-21-2014 6:00 PM


Re: Huh?
Catholic Scientist writes:
Horse-like mammals can't survive in the bottom of the Mariana Trench, the heart of the Amazon, nor the middle of Antarctica.
How "horse-like" are they? They superficially resemble horses but how do we know their biology is horse-like? Maybe the heart of the Amazon is their ideal habitat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-21-2014 6:00 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 237 of 339 (723075)
03-26-2014 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by New Cat's Eye
03-25-2014 4:42 PM


Re: 2 more cents
Catholic Scientist writes:
Are there mountain lions in Illinois?
Honest question, I'd like to know.
Yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-25-2014 4:42 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2014 12:44 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 239 of 339 (723080)
03-26-2014 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by New Cat's Eye
03-26-2014 12:44 PM


Re: 2 more cents
Catholic Scientist writes:
Are they just "passing through", or should they be identified as a native species by the DNR?
What their intentions are or what our intentions should be have nothing to do with thinking critically about whether or not they exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2014 12:44 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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