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Author | Topic: Would you give up your place in heaven... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why?
It would be evil, however, if the ten, upon meeting Jesus...still rejected Him.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Because I gave my life in eternity ...with Jesus...for them to go instead, and they were too proud and independent to allow the Creator of all seen and unseen to welcome them into His world.
They wouldn't belong in Heaven. One cant simply have a spot all their own in such a place. In fact, the whole sin of rejecting God boils down to selfishness. Wanting to be allowed to live in your own little corner...in a house built by someone else and eternity bought and paid for by someone else---and still be stubborn enough not to acknowledge the gift!! Meanwhile, down in hell, I would probably be eternally miserable unless I could strike a deal allowing me to c ease to exist rather than go through what is described as eternal torment...(perhaps lament?? )
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Or maybe they don't want to accept a reward they don't deserve. Maybe they don't want to see you punished for what they did. Maybe the "bad guys" are actually nobler than you and your god.
Because I gave my life in eternity ...with Jesus...for them to go instead, and they were too proud and independent to allow the Creator of all seen and unseen to welcome them into His world. Phat writes:
What a horrible place.
They wouldn't belong in Heaven. One cant simply have a spot all their own in such a place.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Dont you understand? There is no such thing as "your own". No man is an island nor does any man really own one. We are all renters in this universe, whether we believe the landlord exists or not.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You're misusing the quote.
No man is an island nor does any man really own one. We are all renters in this universe, whether we believe the landlord exists or not.quote:It's not about an alien overlord. It's about taking care of each other. "Any man's death diminishes me." If anybody goes to hell, I'm being punished too. If God offers you ten souls for yours, the proper thing to do is negotiate, like Abraham did for the Sodomites. Ask for ten billion.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Gods logic is the exact opposite, however. Look at Shepherd who leaves a herd of 99 sheep in order to rescue 1 solitary sheep.
God might leave a herd of 7 billion in order to find you. What can you do for Him to be worth 7 billion souls?
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
That's not logic just stupidity, dereliction of duty and malfeasance.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
What if you found out that heaven didn't INCLUDE Jesus?
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Obviously then my belief would be wrong. The idea that Heaven wouldn't include Jesus, however, brings up an entire alternative understanding of what Heaven was all about. Perhaps it would thus be like a giant rehab center for broken people, since every bit of what we know about the character of Jesus shows Him to be above reproach.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
All I am saying is that we can never do enough for God. I never said we shouldnt try. I never said we should simply shirk our duties to humanity since we are imperfect.
All I am saying is that God cares as much about one soul as He does multiple souls.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
All I am saying is that we can never do enough for God. I never said we shouldnt try. I never said we should simply shirk our duties to humanity since we are imperfect. All I am saying is that God cares as much about one soul as He does multiple souls. You can't really do anything for God so it is silly to try. But nothing in your post is relevant to anything in this thread.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I think the implication of the story is that the shepherd leaves the 99 in a safe place while he searches for the lost one. That's the opposite of your logic.
Look at Shepherd who leaves a herd of 99 sheep in order to rescue 1 solitary sheep Phat writes:
The question in the OP asks if you would, not if you "could".
What can you do for Him to be worth 7 billion souls?
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The analogy is obvious...Jesus sacrificed His life for the benefit of all of us---thus would we do the same for many others...but critics assert that it was not as much of a sacrifice for the Son of God seing as He already was eternally in Heaven and would never be booted out so that we all could get in...though other commentators mention that even a moment away from communion is a huge sacrifice that we humans would never understand. I would never make a sacrifice simply out of altruistic love for others---quite honestly I dont have that much love naturally for the rest of humanity....and I wouldnt sacrifice for ten otherwise good people who had no interest in meeting the host of the venue. I guess im just too selfish.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If that was true, there would be no topic. Jesus sacrifiiced His life -temporarily - only for those of us who accept Him. The topic's question is: Would you sacrifice your life permanently for others?
...Jesus sacrificed His life for the benefit of all of us--- Phat writes:
If you don't have the love that He TOLD you to have, why would He want you?
I would never make a sacrifice simply out of altruistic love for others---quite honestly I dont have that much love naturally for the rest of humanity........and I wouldnt sacrifice for ten otherwise good people who had no interest in meeting the host of the venue.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The whole point---which you likely disagree with since you are a works oriented type of guy---is that we need Jesus (or Gods) impartation to even be able to have the necessary love. Its not a matter of willing oneself to do the impossible and achieve the necessary altruistic effort. Anyone who is honest would likely admit that they dont have what it takes, though some would argue that we can do it ourselves. I maintain that we cannot.
As for why He would want us...(or nah) my point is that He died (and lived) for broken imperfect people...not for do-gooders who are willing and able to lay their lives down...macho style....like a fearless commando taking a bullet to protect ten.
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