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Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 168 of 451 (760666)
06-24-2015 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Rocky.C
06-24-2015 1:17 PM


Re: still trying to define what Christianity is.
Yawn.
You keep proselytizing but offer us nothing related to the topic.
Is this a case of you not understanding English? What is Christianity?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Rocky.C, posted 06-24-2015 1:17 PM Rocky.C has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 169 of 451 (760667)
06-24-2015 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Phat
06-24-2015 12:26 PM


Re: still trying to define what Christianity is.
Lots of words Phat but still no content that I can see.
Phat writes:
My beliefs are the sum of my experiences.
Fine but that still tells us nothing related to the topic which is "What is Christianity?"
Phat writes:
Personally, I have always believed in church and fellowship of the brethren.
Fine but what the hell does that mean? What does belief in church mean? What does fellowship of the brethren mean?
Phat writes:
Only after I was born again in 1993 did I begin to really feel what I thought it meant to be a Christian
What does that mean?
What does being born again mean? How do you identify someone who is born again? What does it feel like to be a Christian? How is that feeling different than a bad burrito or a warm fuzzy?
What is Christianity?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 06-24-2015 12:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 06-25-2015 2:17 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 171 of 451 (760706)
06-24-2015 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by NoNukes
06-24-2015 8:26 PM


Re: who is a doctor or a Lion or an Elk?
NN writes:
I'm not sure what to make of this statement. I'm sure you are correct, but it is not the color of the words that is of any import. The colored words simply identify words supposedly spoken by Christ in the first person. I'll bet that you can pick up an uncolored KJV, NIV or ESV Bible, and a red highlighter and correctly color 99.9% of the red words in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. FWIW, my own Bible has only black and white text.
Yup, but that still tells us nothing. The different Gospels have Jesus saying different things so we cannot take them as being literally what Jesus said. In addition people over the ages have interpreted "Jesus teachings" in totally different ways.
If you ask Faith if she tries to follow Jesus teachings I would imagine she would claim that she tries.
The goal of this thread was to see if some clear definition of "What is Christianity" might be possible but so far the answer is "No!"
I had suggested using the criteria of "Someone who is a member of one of the chapters (even self identified chapters) of Club Christian but you and others have pointed out that someone could be a Christian even if not associated with any such club. Others has suggested it could be anyone who follows the teachings of Jesus but again, that itself is undefined beyond your suggestion of it being the "Red Letter" passages.
NN writes:
I don't follow your point, jar. Given that I said ISIS would be using a different definition that my own, why should my proposal be of any help to them? ISIS might very well consider everyone who failed to share their world view to be either a bad Muslim or a Christian. I personally don't think I have to agree with their determination.
And to be frank, I'm not all that concerned that my definition does not work for ancient Christians. I will say that whether or not an individual believes in pre-destination or the the trinity is not an issue for me. Nor is it much of an issue that some Christians did not have access to a Bible what with the Bible not being written and all.
Again, the goal of the topic was to see if one definition of "What is Christianity" would be possible. Saying that there are different definitions and that not everyone accepts the other definitions simply underlines the difficulty.
So are we any closer to being able to say "What is Christianity?"

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by NoNukes, posted 06-24-2015 8:26 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by NoNukes, posted 06-25-2015 4:15 AM jar has replied
 Message 181 by herebedragons, posted 06-25-2015 9:38 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 177 of 451 (760736)
06-25-2015 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by NoNukes
06-25-2015 4:15 AM


Re: who is a doctor or a Lion or an Elk?
NN writes:
One of my aunts likes to ask, "If being a real Christian became illegal, could you even get yourself arrested". Her impression was that we ought to be able to recognize at least some aspect of Jesus teachings in your life. She did not require that we find all of his teachings there. I suppose my definition is close to hers.
But again, that tells us nothing.
What is a real Christian and how would that individual be noticed or identified?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by NoNukes, posted 06-25-2015 4:15 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 06-25-2015 8:18 AM jar has replied
 Message 195 by NoNukes, posted 06-25-2015 7:55 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 179 of 451 (760744)
06-25-2015 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Phat
06-25-2015 8:18 AM


Re: who is a doctor or a Lion or an Elk?
Phat writes:
For starters, a real Christian needs to at least acknowledge that jesus is alive...someplace.
Yet you have never even tried to explain what that means. How can someone acknowledge something that makes no sense or has a meaning?
Consider "The hills are alive..." Well that too makes no sense but in that case there is an additional qualifier "...with the sound of music." which tells us we were right, the hills really weren't alive but rather there is the sound of music coming from the hills. And when we look a little further we realize that what we have is a signature song for a Broadway Play and the hills are simply a prop, a setting for the story.
In the latter case we can see that "The hills are alive" has almost nothing to do with the hills or the state of being alive.
So what does Jesus is alive mean?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 06-25-2015 8:18 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Phat, posted 06-25-2015 8:55 AM jar has not replied
 Message 321 by Phat, posted 03-06-2016 2:21 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 182 of 451 (760751)
06-25-2015 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by herebedragons
06-25-2015 9:38 AM


Re: who is a doctor or a Lion or an Elk?
It's interesting in that the Apostles creed makes no claim of a Trinity as in three in one. That is also true of the Nicene Creed but then there is the pesky Athanasian Creed.
With the addition of the Athanasian Creed the non-Trinitarians were excluded from Club Christian.
If we set a standard based on the first two creeds Christianity becomes quite broad.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by herebedragons, posted 06-25-2015 9:38 AM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by herebedragons, posted 06-26-2015 8:24 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 198 of 451 (760814)
06-25-2015 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by NoNukes
06-25-2015 7:55 PM


Re: who is a doctor or a Lion or an Elk?
NN writes:
I would expect such a persons behavior would be visibly different from a non-Christian and that the person would attribute those differences to Christ's teaching. If instead the person attributed his way of life to following Buddha, then the man is instead a Buddhist.
How would such a persons behavior be visibly different if it is only attribution that distinguishes whether it is "Christian" behavior?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by NoNukes, posted 06-25-2015 7:55 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by NoNukes, posted 06-25-2015 8:39 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 200 of 451 (760817)
06-25-2015 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by NoNukes
06-25-2015 8:39 PM


Re: who is a doctor or a Lion or an Elk?
So it comes down to self-identification. Is that correct?
So a Christian is someone who self-identifies as a Christian?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by NoNukes, posted 06-25-2015 8:39 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by NoNukes, posted 06-25-2015 9:25 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 203 of 451 (760821)
06-25-2015 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by NoNukes
06-25-2015 9:25 PM


Re: who is a doctor or a Lion or an Elk?
NN writes:
That appears to be about fifty percent of what I posted. Yes, the identification with Christ is important, but it is not enough, and at this point I dispair of ever communicating that point to you. I yield.
Well, I hope you continue to strive to communicate.
Let me try.
Calvin was one of the most non-Christ like figures I can imagine. He was exclusive while Jesus was inclusive, anti-Semitic while Jesus was a Semite, all around a very not nice person yet I think most people would say that Calvin was a Christian.
There are many other examples, the Phelps family and Westboro Baptist Church come to mind but again, I think most people would consider them Christians even if only examples of Christianity at its worst.
There are Trinitarian Christians and non-Trinitarian Christians and Creedal Christians and some-Creedal Christians and Christians that are declared to not be Christians based on some creed yet following other older creeds and anti-science Christians and pro-science Christians.
There were the Puritans that could not get along with anyone anywhere in the world yet were Christians and the Amish that got along with everyone as long as they could be separate from everyone but still Christians and the Roman Catholics the certainly did not follow the teachings of Jesus in South America but were still Christians.
So where is the line for the fifty percent? Are we, can we, be justified in simply denying that those whose behavior was reprehensible were "True Christians?" Are we not morally obligated to admit our collective and individual failures, acknowledge, confess and repent them, attempt to make amends and try to do better in the future? Can we absolve Christianity simply by claiming some are not really Christians?
I am not trying to simply banter or deal in semantics. This is a serious question.
Do we not have to acknowledge that Christians more often than not do not behave Christ-like?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by NoNukes, posted 06-25-2015 9:25 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by herebedragons, posted 06-26-2015 9:34 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 210 of 451 (760848)
06-26-2015 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by herebedragons
06-26-2015 8:24 AM


Re: who is a doctor or a Lion or an Elk?
The Athanasian Creed seems a product of the 6th Century politics about who would control the church and is an early example of "exclusion", of anathemas. But even in the major Apostolic Churches like the Roman Catholic, Lutheran and Episcopal (CoE) chapters about the only time it comes up is on Trinity Sunday and it does not deal so much with who is a Christian as who will be saved.
The concept of the Creedal Christian is also not really new, I've always identified myself as a Cradle Creedal Christian.
Also, the definition of "scripture" has changed over time. It certainly didn't mean a "Bible" rather just any writing that was thought to be inspired. There were gospels and epistles and writings in circulation that did not make it into any of the various canons and even there the canons vary from the smallest (the Samaritan Orthodox canon that accepts only those books which might have been canonized at the time of Jesus life, the Pentateuch and excludes all of the New Testament ) to the Ethiopian Long canon that includes over eighty books.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by herebedragons, posted 06-26-2015 8:24 AM herebedragons has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 221 of 451 (760911)
06-26-2015 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by herebedragons
06-26-2015 12:22 PM


Re: The Creeds as definitive of a Christian
Of course neither the Apostle's or Nicene creeds say anything about salvation or a requirement for salvation.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by herebedragons, posted 06-26-2015 12:22 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 240 of 451 (761173)
06-29-2015 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by Phat
06-29-2015 10:59 AM


Re: One Mans Argument For Meaning Of Spirit
Phat writes:
So if I get what you mean, you argue that God is Spirit, Jesus has Spirit and that the Spirit is the active force of God. Correct?
Does that even have any meaning or is it just another feel good bumper sticker like "Jesus is alive today"?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 10:59 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 11:35 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 242 of 451 (761200)
06-29-2015 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Phat
06-29-2015 11:35 AM


Re: One Mans Argument For Meaning Of Spirit
Phat writes:
It may have meaning to the audience to whom it is being addressed.
Then it should be possible to tell others what that meaning is I would think.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 11:35 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 245 of 451 (761230)
06-29-2015 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Phat
06-29-2015 5:45 PM


Re: US Christianity is too often just a Constitutionally protected con
Phat writes:
True. Or maybe God really does exist. I dont see how we could even have Christianity without Him.
Did the Greeks have religions based on non-existent deities?
Did the Romans have religions based on non-existent deities?
Did the Norse have religions based on non-existent deities?
Did the Germans have religions based on non-existent deities?
Did the Egyptians have religions based on non-existent deities?
Did the Babylonians have religions based on non-existent deities?
Did the Celts have religions based on non-existent deities?
Did the Hindus have religions based on non-existent deities?
Why do you think Christianity could not exist if there was no God?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 5:45 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 6:17 PM jar has replied
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 06-30-2015 12:08 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 247 of 451 (761241)
06-29-2015 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Phat
06-29-2015 6:17 PM


Re: Christianity As A Profession
Phat writes:
Understand, however, that much of my belief depends on Him being alive.
What does that mean? How is Jesus alive? How can we differentiate between Jesus being alive and Superman being alive?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 6:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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