Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8914 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-27-2019 2:05 AM
32 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Upcoming Birthdays: ooh-child
Post Volume:
Total: 854,843 Year: 9,879/19,786 Month: 2,301/2,119 Week: 337/724 Day: 0/62 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev123456
7
8Next
Author Topic:   Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 285 of 424 (767682)
08-31-2015 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Taq
08-31-2015 4:03 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Where He ordained marriage for a man and a woman.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Taq, posted 08-31-2015 4:03 PM Taq has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 286 of 424 (767683)
08-31-2015 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Greatest I am
08-31-2015 4:04 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Right in line with the degeneration of the culture, you confuse murder of innocents with justice, good for evil and evil for good.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Greatest I am, posted 08-31-2015 4:04 PM Greatest I am has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 287 of 424 (767685)
08-31-2015 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Tangle
08-31-2015 4:08 PM


Re: NRe: HRe: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
You are right, that witch trials and thumb screws have nothing to do with Christianity, they are aberrations mostly invented by Catholicism.

On the other hand, the theology of the death penalty for murder is completely just, and should be applied to those who used thumb screws and murdered dissidents of all kinds, especially Bible believing dissidents..


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Tangle, posted 08-31-2015 4:08 PM Tangle has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 289 of 424 (767695)
08-31-2015 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Omnivorous
08-31-2015 9:58 PM


Re: SCOTUS declines to extend clerk's stay
It's definitely a painful choice: an $80-thousand a year job or obedience to God.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Omnivorous, posted 08-31-2015 9:58 PM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Omnivorous, posted 08-31-2015 10:09 PM Faith has responded
 Message 293 by Bliyaal, posted 09-01-2015 8:01 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 292 of 424 (767698)
08-31-2015 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Omnivorous
08-31-2015 10:09 PM


Re: SCOTUS declines to extend clerk's stay
It's hard to get across how there is no personal bigotry or hatred of gays involved in this, though you persist in construing it that way. I'm sure there's nothing I could say to change your view of it, but I did run across an interesting post on loving the sinner on Cripplegate a well-known Christian blog.

First the writer discusses the out-and-out unchristian hatred of gays expressed by Westboro Baptist Church, then turns to an interesting example of an attempt to show love even while refusing to give in to the sin, which might at least help to soften the tone of this until we hear what Kim Davis decides to do.

Remember the Kleins? The Oregon bakers who were fined for refusing to make a wedding cake for a lesbian couple? They consulted with evangelist Ray Comfort who advised them to send a cake to a list of gay rights organizations, which they did, and it looked like this:

So what does it look like to love the sinner and hate the sin? How could Westboro Baptist show love for homosexuals without condoning the sin of homosexuality? Ask Ray Comfort. Thats what the Kleins did.

Melissa and Aaron Klein, bakers from Oregon, declined to make a wedding cake for a lesbian couple. And they were successfully sued for discrimination. The case is being appealed, but in the meantime the Kleins approached famed evangelist Ray Comfort who has shed a beam of solace on the situation. At his suggestion the couple baked and sent cakes to ten gay rights organizations. They included a gift certificate, a gospel message, and decorated the cakes with the words We really do love you.

No one could misconstrue the Kleins gesture as approving of homosexuality. And yet no one can dispute that the Kleins are doing a better job at showing love to homosexual people than Westboro is.

Cheered me up anyway. I hope Kim Davis has the courage to give up her job for obedience to God. It would also be nice if she could come up with some sort of gesture similar to the Kleins'.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Omnivorous, posted 08-31-2015 10:09 PM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by Greatest I am, posted 09-01-2015 8:09 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 295 by Omnivorous, posted 09-01-2015 10:30 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 301 of 424 (767726)
09-01-2015 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Omnivorous
09-01-2015 10:30 AM


Re: SCOTUS declines to extend clerk's stay
Interesting. I'm surprised I didn't anticipate her doing this. I have to suppose she will be arrested, that will probably be the next event. I'd like to be surprised on that too of course.

But you are quite wrong in thinking God would require her to keep her oath. In the Book of Acts (4:19, 5:29) the apostles who have been preaching Christ are told by the Jewish authorities to stop doing it, and their answer is that they ought to obey God rather than man. An oath that violates God's law must not be kept, just as the SCOTUS ruling itself must not be obeyed because it violates God's law. God has no problem with this woman's decision. The state may, in which case she'll no doubt be punished, but she is certainly not out of line with respect to God.

Interesting though. I await further developments.

ABE: Getting this into better perspective, perhaps, it needs to be recognized that this was a request for a stay while she makes an appeal, not some kind of final decision.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Omnivorous, posted 09-01-2015 10:30 AM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-01-2015 1:58 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 305 of 424 (767734)
09-01-2015 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by ringo
09-01-2015 11:53 AM


Re: HRe: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
I guess I could devote the rest of my life to helping those who are working to set wrongly convicted people free. I applaud their work but I have other things to do with the rest of my life.

However, the point I was making is that the death penalty is the right sentence for some crimes, and that doesn't change because of judicial mistakes in determining who deserves it. These are separate issues. You don't change the law because people misapply it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by ringo, posted 09-01-2015 11:53 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by ringo, posted 09-01-2015 12:19 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 306 of 424 (767735)
09-01-2015 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by ringo
09-01-2015 12:05 PM


Re: NRe: HRe: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
You again distort Jesus' teaching. He doesn't address anything that has to do with the criminal justice system, He is addressing individuals about how we are to deal with personal injustices against ourselves.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by ringo, posted 09-01-2015 12:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by ringo, posted 09-01-2015 12:20 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 309 of 424 (767738)
09-01-2015 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by ringo
09-01-2015 12:20 PM


Re: NRe: HRe: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Actually it did back in tribal times. It was intended to correct the excesses of vigilante justice. In any case it's clear that people continued to use that formula in dealing with their private injuries and that is what Jesus was preaching to. It's clear He's addressing individuals no matter what the context anyway. Jesus had no reason to preach to nations and states, He was collecting individuals to make up His church.

Applying His teaching to the criminal justice system is so beyond absurd you have to just not be thinking. Sheer nonsense, ringo, a huge waste of time.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by ringo, posted 09-01-2015 12:20 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by ringo, posted 09-01-2015 12:45 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 314 of 424 (767751)
09-01-2015 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by Dr Adequate
09-01-2015 1:58 PM


Re: SCOTUS declines to extend clerk's stay
Why isn't there some recognition of the fact that she had the job before the law came down? That's some kind of fraud or entrapment I would think, something that ought to be prosecuted in itself.

I quoted scripture to show that she's in God's favor in making this decision, nothing new about it. It's the decision Christians have made since the beginning, that has brought the wrath of the pagan state against us. We choose God over the worship of Caesar and get eaten by lions. We choose the Bible over the traditions of the RCC and get tortured and massacred by the Inquisition. Tyndale got burnt at the stake for daring to translate the Bible into English against the teachings of the RCC that only priests could read it and only in Latin. Finally it's coming to America, that's all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-01-2015 1:58 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 315 by Bliyaal, posted 09-01-2015 2:21 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 316 by Omnivorous, posted 09-01-2015 2:25 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 319 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-02-2015 12:37 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 320 by PaulK, posted 09-02-2015 1:40 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 324 by jar, posted 09-02-2015 10:45 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 342 of 424 (767940)
09-03-2015 7:24 PM


Just because she knew in advance that she couldn't go along with the law before it happened does not mean she did anything to "set this up" in advance. That's pernicious nonsense.

Also, you can't cancel out one part of scripture by another. Obviously we are to obey all laws that do not violate God's law, but this law does directly violate God's law and leaves us no choice but to refuse to obey it.


Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by Coragyps, posted 09-03-2015 7:48 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 344 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-03-2015 7:50 PM Faith has responded
 Message 350 by Omnivorous, posted 09-03-2015 8:34 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 345 of 424 (767944)
09-03-2015 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by New Cat's Eye
09-03-2015 7:50 PM


I didn't address my post to you.

As I already said you can't use one scripture against another and Peter would agree.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-03-2015 7:50 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-03-2015 7:57 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 348 of 424 (767950)
09-03-2015 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by NoNukes
09-03-2015 8:08 PM


Re: Scripture vs scripture
It would be tempting if he'd intentionally put himself in harm's way. There is no contradiction otherwise.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by NoNukes, posted 09-03-2015 8:08 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 349 of 424 (767951)
09-03-2015 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by New Cat's Eye
09-03-2015 7:57 PM


You apparently forgot the scripture I already quoted, even said by Peter as well, that "we ought to obey God rather than man." You can't put the other one above this one. Both are true. Scripture has to be read in context, in the light of every other scripture.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-03-2015 7:57 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31821
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 352 of 424 (767963)
09-03-2015 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Omnivorous
09-03-2015 8:34 PM


When she took the oath? When was that?

Also much is being made of her divorces but I haven't followed the history of her life so I don't know if those preceded or followed her conversion to Christ. Although we are all unfortunately still susceptible to sin after conversion, some of us come to Christ with a lot of sin baggage already dragging behind us. He saves sinners, remember? That doesn't make the sin disappear.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Omnivorous, posted 09-03-2015 8:34 PM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by Omnivorous, posted 09-03-2015 10:27 PM Faith has responded

    
Prev123456
7
8Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019