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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Religion or Science - How do they compare? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: God created us perfect and we fell into sin and got sick as a result. You really don't believe the Bible do you? No where in the Bible does it say or imply that God created us perfect, rather the best that can be said is that God looked at what He had created and thought it was very good.
Geneis 1 writes: 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Everything; not just humans. And very good not perfect. Humans and pond scum were both very good. Even if you don't read the whole Bible Faith maybe you could at least read the first few pages.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Phat writes: Once people begin to face the pains of the future and see the reality of China crushing the US role as global superpower, I predict that at least in the US, Christianity will see a huge upsurge, and the public will again turn to the church to help them get what government will no longer be able to provide. But what does the evidence show? England lost it's Empire and world dominating Navy and faced debt far greater as a percentage of production than the US debt. Did the people turn to the church to get what government no longer provided and did the church meet those needs? France and Germany and Belgium and Italy and Spain and Poland and Greece and Russia and ... lost everything, homes, factories, generations, governments. Did the people turn to the church to get what government no longer provided and did the church meet those needs?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: The Bible is our final authority. then why do you constantly deny what the Bible actually says and substitute the dogma of your Cult for what is actually written?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: I quoted someone who gives the standard traditional understanding. No, you quoted someone who gives the dogma of your Cult. The issue is why don't you believe the Bible says what is actually written over what is claimed by a fallen human member of your Cult?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Objectivity is practically defined by the suspension of one's own opinions and feelings and judging according to an external standard. But then why did you choose the dogma of your Cult as your external standard over what is actually written in the Bible stories as well as the reality that there is no such thing as "The Bible" but only collections of collections of stories chosen by humans?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: What is actually written is what I follow. You on the other hand don't. Now you know that is not true Faith, you have consistently denied the simple words actually written in the Bible as I have pointed out on numerous occasions. For example, you have denied that there are two creation myths in the Genesis fables and that the Gods described are different, the methods different, the order different and that the God in Genesis 2&3 is pretty much just learning on the job, fumbling, not honest or even rational. You have claimed that there is a "Fall" in the Bible while what actually is written says that man was elevated to be more like God.
Faith writes: The Bible was directly and personally inspired by God, meaning the men who wrote it were guided by God. Yet what is written in the Bible shows that they could not get the stories straight, kept expanding and elaborating on the tales, made prophecies that never came true as well as made factual errors.
Faith writes: The Bible is a compilation of Spirit-inspired writings by God's own chosen prophets and apostles. Again, you have never presented any evidence to support that assertion or in fact identified the writers of the stories.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: jar claims that the OT God was "fumbling, indecisive and in need of correction". No Phat, jar has NEVER claimed that. What jar has repeatedly said is that there is no God of the Old Testament but rather many often mutually exclusive descriptions of God in the Old Testament. The God described in Genesis 2&3 is fumbling, fearful, learning on the job and indecisive. The God in Genesis 18 is ignorant and also has his morality corrected by Abraham. Phat, stop thinking of the Bible as one continuing saga; it's not. It is a collection of different tales by different authors created over untold centuries meat to reach the audience of the period when they were written and reflecting the God created by the peoples of that era. Genesis is NOT one story. There is no "God of the Old Testament" or "New Testament" or "The Bible". The book doesn't need revising the readers need to get educated on the basics.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And in reality the Holy Spirit was a late political creation that evolved over time and was created solely by humans.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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It really boils down to "WE are not convinced" which of course is the singular WE.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: To claim that we are Christians and yet also claim that we have no idea Who God is or whether GOD even exists is an insult to the name Christian. Yet what does the evidence show? Why are the descriptions of God in Genesis 1, Genesis 2&3, Genesis 18 and many other places so different?
Phat writes: This whole idea that a bunch of ancient fables and mythos created by man only means that we are charged to do our best for each other is admittedly logical and reasonable apart from the fact that your Sunday school class mentions God only as an ancient myth created by humans. Not acceptable. yet once again you misrepresent what I have said and said repeatedly. Please point to where I said "the fact that your Sunday school class mentions God only as an ancient myth created by humans"; but of course, you cannot do that without taking what I actually posted out of context and misrepresenting what I have said. And if you disagree or find what you quoted "Not acceptable" then present your supporting evidence. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: One reason that it is difficult to discuss these beliefs with you is that you separate your personal beliefs from logic, reason, and reality and never introduce them into the discussion. But my beliefs are unreasonable, illogical and unsupported by reality. But again, seriously Phat, I have never expressed my beliefs here at EvC?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: You have to a degree, but you never seem to embrace a living Christ---only because there is no evidence and because it is illogical and likely a marketing tool (in your mind) And no one has ever been able to explain what "a living Christ" is or means?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
jar stated that no one has ever explained what "a living Christ" means and Phat responds "Why should they need to?"
Are you kidding? Do you believe in a living snugwump? Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: No, but if everyone that my family knew talked of such a critter and mentioned that they believed in one and sung songs honoring the smugwump and TV had people preaching smugwumpism and I heard testimonies of how the smugwump cured cancer and blessed a down and out man and once when I went forward I swore the smugwump whispered in my ear, I would have no further need to explain the critter to you. But if all of those sources said that the smgwump died yet you claimed it was a living smugwump is it not reasonable to as what a living smugwump means? The fact is that so far no one has ever explained what a living God or living Christ or living Jesus means? I can see examples of many living things, many non-living things and even some things where it's not clear whether the are living or non-living but Gods and Christ and Jesus do not show those characteristics. So again, what does a living Christ mean? Edited by jar, : fix sub-title
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Seems if I recall correctly, your subjective conclusion to the question is that the book tells us to be imitators of the character and that in fact is what a living Christ means...that we carry on as imitators of the character in the book. That's a better start but now what does it mean to "carry on as imitators of the character in the book"?
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