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Author | Topic: Christianity and the End Times | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: I think that "imaginary pulpit speak" is recognizable to Christian believers as describing their own personal experiences. It's just a mantra. It's intended to reinforce the belief that was implanted literally at birth.
You really really really want it to be imaginary, though, don't you? No. I want the opposite. Why would anyone not want the promise of everlasting life? It would be great if it was all true - well obviously not the deranged and perverted version you believe in but the Christian one of a loving god - that would be a good outcome.
To the point that you'll call millions of people insane who say they've experienced it personally rather than consider that maybe YOU get it all wrong. What is 'it'? So far you've described mundaneity. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You've made it impossible for yourself to have the eternal life you say you want.
John 5:37-44 writes: And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Sounds like John is talking to you. "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life...." "... ye have not the love of God in you."And our geese will blot out the sun.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
You've made it impossible for yourself to have the eternal life you say you want. I thought it was impossible for a man to affect his own prospects for salvation. At least that's what Calvinist doctrine holds. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, it holds that we are personally responsible for our choices.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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*Real* Calvanists believe that salvation is predestined and there's nothing that poor humans can do about it.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
That's from God's point of view. From our point of view we are responsible for the decisions we make and there is nothing stopping you from taking seriously the steps you must take to eternal life. .
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: That's from God's point of view. From our point of view we are responsible for the decisions we make and there is nothing stopping you from taking seriously the steps you must take to eternal life. You think god is wrong? His viewpoint is that your destiny was predetermined before you were born and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Your viewpoint is that you can change your destiny. It seems that your arrogance extends as far as telling god he's wrong. You know better.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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That's from God's point of view. From our point of view we are responsible for the decisions we make and there is nothing stopping you from taking seriously the steps you must take to eternal life. . But unless you are arguing that your fallen mind is right and God is wrong, your statement is ridiculous. Beyond that, your own arguments in the past have warned that man can do nothing to affect his salvation and that Catholics are wrong to think otherwise. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
But unless you are arguing that your fallen mind is right and God is wrong, your statement is ridiculous. Beyond that, your own arguments in the past have warned that man can do nothing to affect his salvation and that Catholics are wrong to think otherwise. As often happens I can't imagine where you get such notions about what I've supposedly said. I'd guess it's a context problem of some sort but since you don't quote me I don't know, I can only guess. What I said is true: we have the responsibility for our choices; God's sovereignty over all things is another level of reality that doesn't change that fact of our having responsibility within the scope of our knowledge. I suppose your remark about what Catholics believe is a garbled misunderstanding of the Reformation tenet of salvation by faith alone and not by works? {"By grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone" and "not by works (good deeds) lest any man should boast."} But that's not what I'm talking about here. Tangle says of course he wants eternal life so I'm saying he has the responsibility to seek it if that is so, and that means he has the responsibility to find out that salvation is by faith alone and to seek that faith. If we really want to be born again although we can't do it ourselves we can seek it from God, we can read the scripture to understand what it means, we can pray God would give it to us. "Whoever comes unto Me I will not turn away." Anyone who really does that in sincerity won't be turned down. That's scriptural. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Tangle writes: Tangle says of course he wants eternal life so I'm saying he has the responsibility to seek it if that is so, and that means he has the responsibility to find out that salvation is by faith alone and to seek that faith. But god has aready predestined whether I get eternal life or not. Nothing I can do can change it apparently.
If we really want to be born again although we can't do it ourselves we can seek it from God, we can read the scripture to understand what it means, we can pray God would give it to us. "Whoever comes unto Me I will not turn away." Anyone who really does that in sincerity won't be turned down. That's scriptural. Fine, then pick one. Either it's predestined or I can change my destiny. Can't have both. Personally, I'd pick the scriptural stuff, at least that makes some kind of internal sense.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, you're talking what is called "hyperCalvinism," not true Calvinism. If you really want eternal life you can seek it and find it.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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"Not a TRUE Calvinist." Gee, why didn't we see that one coming?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Faith writes: No, you're talking what is called "hyperCalvinism," not true Calvinism. If you really want eternal life you can seek it and find it. So 'ordinary' Calvinists don't believe in predestination now? Including you?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Predestination doesn't affect your personal responsibility.
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