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Author | Topic: Bit Coin: 2 bit bubble | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
This is the best video I have yet found that explains money, credit, debt, inflation and deflation, and a template for seeing where we have been, where we are now, and where we likely will be heading.
I encourage anyone with questions to read the transcript.
Transcript Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Okay, so we're clear on that - it would be bad for Phat, which is all that matters.
ringo writes:
I wouldn't like it. At all. Are you saying it couldn't be done or are you saying you don't like it? Phat writes:
And we've had that since always. So?
Though many people would be helped, many others would suffer. Phat writes:
*shrug* It belies the definition of a revolution. Ever hear of the American Revolution? Whether a revolution is good or bad is in the eye of the beholder.
Phat writes:
Remember who said that? (Matthew 20:16)
The wheel simply revolves and the first will be last. And the last first. Phat writes:
I said no such thing. The Federal Reserve is not your community. Your community existed long before the Federal reserve was ever thought of, long before there was a federation to reserve anything.
ringo writes:
Agreed. The Federal Reserve is the villain. You're dependent on the community. Phat writes:
Ask one.
How does a Democratic Socialist see this? Phat writes:
Yes. Is it ok to get poorer?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
Seems the current administration is in favor of more stimulus and more debt being introduced into the economy.
I'm not sure where you get that. The Trump administration ran up the debt. In the last 40 years or so, Republicans have been running up the debt. The current administration wants to pay for the stimulus with a tax increase on the very wealthy. It is the Republicans who will block that.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You really need to read that transcript from the excellent video on how money works. Your communities need to be able to turn their labor into capital. Transcript
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No. You need to explain it. Then maybe you would understand it. You really need to read that transcript from the excellent video on how money works."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Its pretty self explanatory and it doesnt take Rocket Science to see the logic.
Transcript writes: You claim we can fragment into local economies, but this is neither practical or efficient. Though the economy might seem complex, it works in a simple, mechanical way.It's made up of a few simple parts and a lot of simple transactions that are repeated over and over again a zillion times. These transactions are above all else driven by human nature, and they create 3 main forces that drive the economy. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What you quoted from the transcript seems to agree more with me than with you:
You claim we can fragment into local economies, but this is neither practical or efficient.quote: So explain yourself."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: First off, there is nothing wrong with my agreeing with you if, in fact, you are saying something reasonable. I'm simply attempting to explain why the video is logical, rational, and reasonable. What you quoted from the transcript seems to agree more with me than with you:
quote: So explain yourself. You've heard the quote that No Man Is An Island. No economy is an Island, either, The planet is interconnected, for better or worse. If you simply banded together as Saskatewanians, you may well have plenty of Machinery, transportation, and industrial equipment;Food, crop, and beverage processing; Wood, steel, and plastic products; and Chemical manufacturing. What you would not have is what the rest of us produce that you don't have. Fish, for example. (apart from lake-caught fish! And some people groups would be unfortunately stuck in non-resource rich communities. How will they survive apart from the rest of us? transcript writes: Keep in mind, too that governments trade with each other, and a government is made up of all the seemingly fragmented local economies under their jurisdiction. Let's start with the simplest part of the economy: Transactions.An economy is simply the sum of the transactions that make it up and a transaction is a very simple thing. You make transactions all the time. Every time you buy something you create a transaction. Each transaction consists of a buyer exchanging money or credit with a seller for goods, services or financial assets. Credit spends just like money, so adding together the money spent and the amount of credit spent, you can know the total spending. The total amount of spending drives the economy. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
But you're not agreeing with me. You posted a quote that agrees with me but it doesn't agree with you.
First off, there is nothing wrong with my agreeing with you if, in fact, you are saying something reasonable. Phat writes:
Trade. And some people groups would be unfortunately stuck in non-resource rich communities. How will they survive apart from the rest of us? We've had financial collapses in the past and they didn't cause trade to come to a screeching halt.
Phat writes:
Again, your transcript does not support what you claim. transcript writes:Let's start with the simplest part of the economy: Transactions.... "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Transcript writes: Do you agree with the premise so far? An economy is simply the sum of the transactions that make it upand a transaction is a very simple thing. You make transactions all the time. Every time you buy something you create a transaction. Each transaction consists of a buyer exchanging money or credit with a seller for goods, services or financial assets. Credit spends just like money, so adding together the money spent and the amount of credit spent, you can know the total spending. The total amount of spending drives the economy. If you divide the amount spent by the quantity sold, you get the price. And that's it. That's a transaction. It is the building block of the economic machine. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have already said that what you quoted agrees with me. Simple transactions. Nothing about the whole system collapsing. Do you agree with the premise so far?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Oh?
We've had financial collapses in the past and they didn't cause trade to come to a screeching halt. History writes: 65% may not qualify as a screeching halt, but it supports my point. Some areas get hit really hard. You claim that revolutions are in the eyes of the beholder, but who be the holder? Certainly not myself and my neighbors! I don't know what your town thinks, but I doubt that a great depression would thrill them. Unless you are a liberal socialist bordering on favoring anarchy and reparations (or rioting and looting...take your pick ) you would agree with me. This crisis must be prevented. The Great Depression of 1929 devastated the U.S. economy. A third of all banks failed. Unemployment rose to 25%, and homelessness increased.2 Housing prices plummeted 67%, international trade collapsed by 65%, and deflation soared above 10%. It took 25 years for the stock market to recover."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Yes. ONE third failed. TWO thirds did not.
History writes:The Great Depression of 1929 devastated the U.S. economy. A third of all banks failed. Unemployment rose to 25%, and homelessness increased.2 Housing prices plummeted 67%, international trade collapsed by 65%, and deflation soared above 10%. It took 25 years for the stock market to recover.
And it did recover. So I repeat, we've had financial collapses in the past and they didn't cause trade to come to a screeching halt.
Phat writes:
No it doesn't. It supports my point that it isn't an uncommon thing.
65% may not qualify as a screeching halt, but it supports my point. Phat writes:
Some areas get hit hard even in boom times - there are still bankruptcies, foreclosures, unemployment, homelessness, etc.
Some areas get hit really hard. Phat writes:
I said, "Whether a revolution is good or bad is in the eye of the beholder." Message 32 You claim that revolutions are in the eyes of the beholder... Phat writes:
When the beholder is an American, he thinks the American Revolution was good. When the beholder is somebody else, he thinks it was treason.
... but who be the holder? Phat writes:
Certainly not myself and my neighbors! I don't know what your town thinks, but I doubt that a great depression would thrill them.You're so far off base you can't even see the stadium. I didn't say one single, solitary word about anybody "liking" a depression. Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with whether it happens.
Phat writes:
I am. (Not "bordering" - right spang in the middle.)
Unless you are a liberal socialist bordering on favoring anarchy and reparations... Phat writes:
It isn't a matter of Phat's way or utter chaos. Reality is somewhere in the middle.
...(or rioting and looting...take your pick )... Phat writes:
Of course I don't agree with you. You haven't said a word that makes any sense.
... you would agree with me. Phat writes:
The "crisis" that you're raving about is nothing but your fantasy. This crisis must be prevented."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: If you worked at a job...a factory, for instance...and 1/3 of the workers were laid off, I guarantee that the othjer 2/3 would feel it also. They likely would be forced to work harder, for one thing. Yes. ONE third failed. TWO thirds did not. You socialists never care about the guy next door. You care about India, or LGBTQ cases of individual injustice, or the fact that many people live below the poverty line. And you think that it's horrible for Trump to give a tax cut to that factory that you hypothetically work at. (Perhaps it is/was...I'm a political moderate but I also see the conservative arguments in favor of tax cuts for small businesses in order to stimulate investment and productivity) Tax hikes may not hurt the top 5% of people, but they sure hurt the middle class earning $75,000.00 to $200,000.00 a year. I'm not sure I agree that the middle two quadrants should be forced to pay more simply to help the bottom one. Why can't we all unite against the top quadrant rather than lower the wages of the working middle class to help the poor guys and get the country out of debt? This is why populism is popular. The middle feels besieged and at risk of being fleeced by the globalist agenda."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
We are not talking about whether or not anybody would notice. You claim that the economy will collapse. I say it won't.
If you worked at a job...a factory, for instance...and 1/3 of the workers were laid off, I guarantee that the othjer 2/3 would feel it also. They likely would be forced to work harder, for one thing. Phat writes:
Don't be ridiculous. Socialism is ALL about the guy next door. Remember the Good Samaritan? Jesus explained that your neighbor, the guy next door, is also the guy in India and the LBGTQ guy.
You socialists never care about the guy next door. Phat writes:
They shouldn't "have to". They should be voluntarily helping the guy next door, as Jesus said.
I'm not sure I agree that the middle two quadrants should be forced to pay more simply to help the bottom one. Phat writes:
There's your class struggle again, Mr. Marx.
Why can't we all unite against the top quadrant... Phat writes:
Since when did Trump have a globalist adgenda? This is why populism is popular. The middle feels besieged and at risk of being fleeced by the globalist agenda."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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