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Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Teacher Fired for Disagreeing With Literal Interpretation of Bible | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
anglagard Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
I first learned of this due to Countdown with Keith Olbermann on MSNBC, where the story received the dubious honor of being in the segment "good guys and goofballs."
According to the story, a community college teacher from Southwestern Community College in Red Oak, Iowa was fired for deviating from fundamentalist Christian orthodoxy by stating the account given in Genesis should not be taken literally. Evidentially some distance students in Osceola, Iowa objected to anyone speaking contrary to the literal interpretation and the administration caved to a minority position of Christians, which holds the book more sacred than God. The obligatory Google News search discovered this sole account US teacher fired for non-literal bible reading The Register
quote: More:
quote: As a community college librarian in the US, I consider this a clear and blatant violation of the principle of separation of church and state, and hope the aggrieved teacher turns the tables and sues the crap out of this publically funded institution. News? or is it yet another debate on separation of Church and State, a first amendment which has never been accepted by some so-called Christian patriots? Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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Admin Director Posts: 13046 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.7 |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
Faculty & Staff
here, you can find the faculty email addresses. i think we should stage an e-protest. fill their inboxes.
Good morning. I am terribly disappointed that your institution would determine the employment of an instructor by the opinions of a group of uneducated persons informed only by their strict religious dogma. As a public institution funded by the government, you have a responsibility to resist religious pressure. By your actions, you have established religious dogma as "truth" which your institutions esteemed professors must teach, or fear the same punishment. You have done a great disservice to education, your professors, and your students. i emailed the vp of instruction. Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
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Jon Inactive Member |
here, you can find the faculty email addresses. i think we should stage an e-protest. fill their inboxes. SWEET PLAN!
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bob_gray Member (Idle past 5044 days) Posts: 243 From: Virginia Joined: |
The DesMoines Register also published the story here:
Teacher: I was fired, said Bible isn't literal I'm also going to send my e-protest. It seems unbelievable that it could happen.
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Isn't any reaction premature before a connection has really been established between the anti-Biblical statement and the firing?
We don't know anything about Bitterman or the truth of his claims. We have only his side of the story. He might be telling things exactly as they are, or he could be an idiot grasping for reasons that aren't his fault for why he was fired. If you examine the school's website (http://www.swcc.cc.ia.us/) there's no hint of Christian fundamentalism, or religion of any kind. It has more vocational curriculums than anything else. I don't think the "second college in Osceola" is actually another college. Southwestern Community College has three campuses, and one is in Osceola. --Percy
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Here is a link to the article in the Des Moines Register.
I do like this bit:
quote: I like the way that it was felt necessary to identify Prof. Avalos as an atheist religion professor. The comments section is an interesting read, too. Added by edit: Oops. I see that bob gray has already linked to this article. I didn't reread the thread after I read it this morning, so missed it. Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given. In many respects, the Bible was the world's first Wikipedia article. -- Doug Brown (quoted by Carlin Romano in The Chronicle Review)
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
The story is too one sided for now. I'm going to wait until I see something from the other side of the battlefield.
Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i don't tend to believe stuff that comes out of junior college public relations offices.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Actually meant as a general reply.
Here is another article from The Des Moines Register from the point of view of some of the complaining students. Apparently, the instructor had hurt a few student's feelings with his methods. The college administration is staying silent on the episode, as expected concerning personnel matters. While no one should be abused or humiliated for their beliefs, it is a goal of higher education to get students to think critically and question their assumptions. From what little information I have, I think the complaining students are in for quite a shock should they wind up in some of the universities I am familiar with. At universities in the US, full professors have tenure. And if the students think they are merciless, they haven't met some of the grad students. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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anglagard Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
So far we have two root stories from the Des Moines Register and a lot of action on the blogs. One point my wife bought up. Why haven't any so called 'professional journalists' interviewed any members of the class other than the few presumably aggrieved individuals?
Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
quote: looks like we need more information.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.5 |
It's always good to have more information.
On the other hand, apparently there was no faculty peer review or administrative hearing of the sorts normally associated with a legitimate concern for or protection of academic freedom. If he has been accused of misbehavior by a student, then he should have the right to confront that accuser in the appropriate setting. If he was informed that a student complained about his treatment of Christianity, I see no reason why he should not discuss that in the classroom. As for laughing at them, I wonder: Guffaws? Chuckles? Smiles? Strange as it may seem, students cannot always be depended on to tell the unvarnished truth. My wife is a professor--a popular one who receives overwhelmingly positive student reviews. She teaches literature and presents many theoretical perspectives: feminist, traditional close reading, deconstructionist, Marxist, you name it. She also welcomes student perspectives. Occasionally, inevitably, someone will write in their course review that she "tried to force [x] theory on us" and "ridiculed my beliefs"--because she insisted they master the tenets of multiple perspectives and challenged them to account for their own. To demand that a student achieve proficiency of a literary reading of the Bible, for example, is not to demand that they relinguish their religion: but some will insist that it is just that. I find it especially interesting to hear the student you quote say "what we wanted" (emphasis mine). If the administration discharged this instructor because a group of students brought complaints to which he was not allowed to respond, the administration has a great deal of explaining to do. If that is the case, I'd imagine any competent attorney could overturn his dismissal and win damages. I agree that more information is necessary for a fully formed judgement. But if the administration had attended to the normal process of faculty peer review and administrative hearings before discharging the instructor, I don't think they'd be saying, "No comment, it's a personnel issue." Edited by Omnivorous, : spelling and U.S. collective noun treatment Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given. Edited by Omnivorous, : Jesus wept! No more typo corrections! Real things always push back. -William James Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
If he was informed that a student complained about his treatment of Christianity, I see no reason why he should not discuss that in the classroom. As for laughing at them, I wonder: Guffaws? Chuckles? Smiles? Strange as it may seem, students cannot always be depended on to tell the unvarnished truth. no, nor can part-time community college professors. i'm quite familiar with the belief-challenging charge -- some beliefs are so shaky, and some believers so sensitive that the socratic method seems like an avenue of attack. and sometimes, it's just a misunderstanding. my father is a professor, and was recently working to help solve a dispute between a student and another professor, that had come before the chair of the department. the student was upset that a professor had "ridiculed" and yelled at them in front of the class (plural used for gender obfuscation). this is a professor that i've known my entire life, and i can't imagine him yelling even for a second. he's about the quietest, most soft-spoken person i've ever known. apparently, all he did was insist the class move on when the student failed to understand prerequisite material.
My wife is a professor--a popular one who receives overwhelmingly positive student reviews. She teaches literature and presents many theoretical perspectives: feminist, traditional close reading, deconstructionist, Marxist, you name it. She also welcomes student perspectives. Occasionally, inevitably, someone will write in their course review that she "tried to force [x] theory on us" and "ridiculed my beliefs"--because she insisted they master the tenets of multiple perspectives and challenged them to account for their own. To demand that a student achieve proficiency of a literary reading of the Bible, for example, is not to demand that they relinguish their religion: but some will insist that it is just that. well, that's the thing, and something i demonstrate here on a daily basis. fundamentalism does not stand up to a proficient reading of the bible. it's the same reason that the church was so upset when martin luther translated the bible into the vernacular -- now people will know what it says, and they won't believe what we tell them anymore.
I find it especially interesting to hear the student you quote say "what we wanted" (emphasis mine). If the administration discharged this instructor because a group of students brought complaints to which he was not allowed to respond, the administration has a great deal of explaining to do. If that is the case, I'd imagine any competent attorney could overturn his dismissal and win damages. well, like i said, we need more information. i don't know if that was the case. it's also possible that they've been hearing complaints about the professor for a long time. and it depends highly on what, exactly, he said to the student in front of the class -- something the student's comment dances around. it might have been highly inappropriate. i'm sure there are certain things a professor could say to a student that would get him fired pretty quickly.
I agree that more information is necessary for a fully formed judgement. But if the administration had attended to the normal process of faculty peer review and administrative hearings before discharging the instructor, I don't think they'd be saying, "No comment, it's a personnel issue." what would they say? i'm not sure they'd say anything else, actually. Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.5 |
arach writes: what would they say? i'm not sure they'd say anything else, actually. Typically, an administration that has followed a well-defined policy which respects both student rights and an instructor's academic freedom will say so: "After careful review and following the procedures of hearings and appeals that we have in place to protect the interests of all blah blah blah." I suspect (and this is just a hunch) that the "No comment" means what it usually means when academic bureaucrats clam up: 1) Oops, we didn't follow our own contractually mandated (or defined) procedures, and 2) Who knew this would atract national attention? We'll see. Real things always push back. -William James Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
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