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Author Topic:   P.Z. Myers in the news (the catholic church communion wafer incident)
Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 31 of 104 (475069)
07-13-2008 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by ICANT
07-11-2008 3:04 PM


Re: Re-Cracker
To the Catholic when the Priest takes the Eucharist, and blesses it. It becomes the actual body of Jesus Christ, it does not represent the body of Christ it is the actual body of Christ, so the young man did not take a cracker, he took the body of Jesus Christ.
Doesn't this make all catholics cannibals?
Is cannibalism legal in the US?
Would you advocate the rights of any other religion that eats bodies?
Isn't all of this very very very silly indeed?

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 Message 6 by ICANT, posted 07-11-2008 3:04 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 48 of 104 (475375)
07-15-2008 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Artemis Entreri
07-15-2008 9:30 AM


I dont expect you to understand, if you are from England. a guy who claims equality for gays, yet still lives in a place where the Act of Settlement 1701 is a reality. dont point the bigotry finger at us, without looking in the mirror 1st.
WTF are you on?
stealing of a consecrated eucharist is definately a serious crime. stealing unconsecrated wafers is a petty offense. It really easy to tell the difference, the consecrated ones are kept in a special place locked in the church, the wafers are kept in the back on a shelf.
If these crackers are suposedly the actual (as opposed to just representing) body of Christ and people are eating them does that not make them cannibals?
That was the question. What is the answer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-15-2008 9:30 AM Artemis Entreri has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Brian, posted 07-15-2008 3:31 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 58 of 104 (475407)
07-15-2008 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Artemis Entreri
07-15-2008 3:03 PM


How come?
That was the question. What is the answer?
no
How come? Because the crackers are obviously not really the body of Christ....?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-15-2008 3:03 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-16-2008 10:53 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 75 of 104 (475562)
07-16-2008 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Artemis Entreri
07-16-2008 10:53 AM


Re: How come?
So it is the actual body of Christ when someone steals a cracker...
But it is also very much not the body of Christ in terms of cannibalism with regard to Catholics taking communion.
Is it not obvious this stuff is being made up as we go along?
Frankly I cannot think of a better example of religious opportunism, hypocrisy and evident delusional insanity than the example in question. Namely that the crackers in question are considered to be the actual body of Christ in one situation whilst being rationalised as very much not the actual body of Christ when required otherwise.
When will this sort of lunacy end?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-16-2008 10:53 AM Artemis Entreri has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Dr Jack, posted 07-17-2008 7:12 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 84 of 104 (475649)
07-17-2008 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Dr Jack
07-17-2008 7:12 AM


Re: Mysticism is not incoherent; it is simply unreal
Imagine for a moment that the spiritual/physical duality that the Catholic church believes in is real - yes, I know that duality doesn't really exist, but just pretend for a moment that it does - the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation states that the spiritual existence of the wafer is transformed into the spiritual being of Jesus; while the physical existence is unchanged. This, if you accept the duality, makes perfect sense.
So the crackers are not the actual body of Christ even as far as Catholics are concerned?
They just contain the spirit of Christ?
So those taking communion are eating physical crackers that contain the spirit of Christ?
Is that right?
It seems more mad the more I am told about this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Dr Jack, posted 07-17-2008 7:12 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Dr Jack, posted 07-17-2008 8:46 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 87 of 104 (475735)
07-17-2008 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Dr Jack
07-17-2008 8:46 AM


Re: Mysticism is not incoherent; it is simply unreal
No, they are the actual body of Christ. The Spritual is not less actual than the Physical.
Are human bodies also spiritual or only physical?
Can I eat the body of a fellow human being but claim that I am only eating them in a spiritual, as opposed to a canibalistic, sense?
Or is this privelige reserved for Jesus?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Dr Jack, posted 07-17-2008 8:46 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Dr Jack, posted 07-18-2008 4:37 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 89 of 104 (475766)
07-18-2008 7:28 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Dr Jack
07-18-2008 4:37 AM


Re: Mysticism is not incoherent; it is simply unreal
Straggler writes
Are human bodies also spiritual or only physical?
Can I eat the body of a fellow human being but claim that I am only eating them in a spiritual, as opposed to a canibalistic, sense?
Or is this privelige reserved for Jesus?
Mr Jack writes
Humans are both spiritual and physical.
I don't believe the rest of your post is a serious question.
I do find the idea that crackers are somehow able to be the body (either spiritual or physical) of Christ quite absurd but I don't think my question was as trivially silly as you have taken it to be.
Can I eat the body of a fellow human being but claim that I am only eating them in a spiritual, as opposed to a canibalistic, sense?
In an admittedly faecetious manner I am asking if the logic of the communion wafers is consistent.
If the wafer of communion is considered to be the actual body of Christ but only in a spiritual sense then is that the 'actual' body in any way that means anything at all?
Where is the division between physical and spiritual? Why is it Ok to eat the spiritual yet abhorrant or offensive to suggest eating the physical? Why does anybody's 'body' have to be eaten by anybody else at all? Does the eating of bodies apply only to Jesus or do we all have the opportunity to be eaten? And, as already asked, if a cracker can be considered the spiritual body can a real physical human body be transmuted such that it too is a spiritual body?
It seems inconsistent to me.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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