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Author Topic:   About prop 8 and other anti gay rights props
anglagard
Member (Idle past 866 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 133 of 192 (490185)
12-02-2008 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Fosdick
11-30-2008 11:19 AM


Re: Minority opinion rules?
Fosdick writes:
You mean it's ridiculous to suggest that a majority should rule in a democracy? What would you prefer instead?
How about a republic like the one we both live in?
Are you not familiar with exactly why the USA is not a direct democracy, such as all the arguments in the Federalist Papers, in Enlightenment philosophy, or why there is actually a judicial system as opposed to "American Idol" justice?
Owl or Fosdick, you are better than an argument for mob rule, please post as though you understand why.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Fosdick, posted 11-30-2008 11:19 AM Fosdick has not replied

anglagard
Member (Idle past 866 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 138 of 192 (490191)
12-02-2008 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by bluescat48
11-30-2008 2:09 PM


Re: Minority opinion rules?
bluescat48 writes:
The churches should stay out of government. Marriage is a civil issue. Ever hear of a marriage license.
Damn Straight!
If one enters into a legal contract with another person and that contract confers certain rights and responsibilities according to the laws of the state, then that should be how marriage is defined according to rights and responsibilities according to the state. Such a contract should not discriminate according to race, creed, background, or indeed sexual orientation.
Now if one desires that this contract be sanctified by a given religion, it is their privilege to do so and indeed it is the right of any given religious sect to refuse such sanction. But regardless of any religious sanction, such a verdict should involve no legal validity as it violates the establishment cause.
The legal business of marriage belongs to the state, as in rendering to Ceasar, the ideological consideration belongs to the church, as is what the couple may desire according to their rendering to whatever god they may choose, or be rejected by the laity, as the case may be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by bluescat48, posted 11-30-2008 2:09 PM bluescat48 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by ramoss, posted 12-04-2008 10:49 AM anglagard has not replied

anglagard
Member (Idle past 866 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 166 of 192 (490484)
12-05-2008 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by kuresu
12-04-2008 11:59 AM


FYI - Breakdown of Prop. 8 Vote
Here is another source that breaks down the vote into even finer categories, from the Associated Press based upon exit polls.
According to this source the following subgroups approved of Proposition 8 at a greater percentage than blacks in general, which was 70-30 in favor.
Black women 75
Party by race - white Republicans 85
Conservatives 85
Optimistic about a McCain presidency 76
Attend church once a week 82
Attend church weekly 84
White evangelical/born again Christians 81
2008 McCain supporter 79
2004 Bush supporter 80
Obama too liberal 74
Aprove of war in Iraq 85
Race an important factor in election 71
McCain would take country in a different direction 79
Approve of Bush job as President 86
Voted for McCain 84
Support Prop. 4 requiring a waiting period and parental notification for a minor to obtain an abortion 76
No real surprises, the primary supporters of Proposition 8 were evangelical/born again frequent church attendees who support awful presidents, war, and just hurting other people in general.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by kuresu, posted 12-04-2008 11:59 AM kuresu has not replied

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