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Author Topic:   "Flags of Our Fathers"
joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 1 of 60 (361711)
11-04-2006 11:59 PM


Men are sent to war to die for their countries.

Many people argue that this is horrible, that they are dying for agendas, for money, and for power.

Others understand this, but accept it because of the sacrifice that the men go through for "freedom", for their nations.

For those who cannot stand the "game", they laugh at borders on maps, and nationalism. It is indecent yearnings for power and manipulation of course. They reject the term "freedom isn't free". They feel that lives lost for nations are lives wasted.

Others see this but with still greater understanding. They realize the true reasons for which men sacrifice themselves. It is not in the name of the men who send them, or in the name of society. It is not in the name of power. It is not in the name of freedom, or propaganda. It is not in the name of politics, or money.

Those simple men who thought that they were done, as they sent these people to their perpetual deaths. As bodies littered the ground, and none cried out in vengeance against this exploitation. None of them would try to stop their senseless barrage of garbage, of evilness. They would simply die. The enslavers could never realize the importance of such deaths. The foolish men who exploited would die believing that they had won the game, and that they were the victors.

But for the soldiers, for Ira Hayes, they died for each other, they flipped it all around on their masters, they grinned when they were put to rest, they laughed at those fools who used them. And God laughed with them. God laughed with them.

Edited by prophex, : No reason given.

Edited by prophex, : No reason given.

Edited by prophex, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 11-05-2006 12:47 AM joshua221 has responded
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 Message 11 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-05-2006 2:25 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1909
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 2 of 60 (361726)
11-05-2006 12:42 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12243
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3 of 60 (361730)
11-05-2006 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
11-04-2006 11:59 PM


Is this about the movie?
I know that I will get flak for favoring your topic and that it will be accused of being yet another Porteus rant....but....I promoted you anyway. So tell me, Charlie...did you see the movie?

I have not seen it yet, but Im assuming that you did since your O.P. waxed poetic! :)

War is one of the most heartfelt yet least understood behaviors of our species.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 11-04-2006 11:59 PM joshua221 has responded

Replies to this message:
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 4 of 60 (361733)
11-05-2006 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
11-05-2006 12:47 AM


Re: Is this about the movie?
Yeah go see it, it makes you think about all this stuff.
This message is a reply to:
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 5 of 60 (361734)
11-05-2006 12:53 AM


I feel that I came to an amazing conclusion about humanity and God by the end of my discussion. I don't feel that it is a rant.
Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12243
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 6 of 60 (361736)
11-05-2006 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by joshua221
11-05-2006 12:53 AM


Do you feel that war is normal or abnormal?

Maybe I should ask a Marine, though. *sigh*


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 7 of 60 (361740)
11-05-2006 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
11-05-2006 12:56 AM


If it is normal for humans to use others, and exploit, then war may remain a fact of life. Hiroshimas will occur in time. The middle east will gain nuclear power, and we will decide to bomb them. Islam versus the US.

These things are just the way those who don't get it, work. They think they are in some sort of winnable game. They create systems where in which we are all destined to not be free. Where there is government and hierarchy. And where if we ever wanted to be free it would be impossible. True freedom is a dream of a man who has not yet left an imaginary world. Bad stuff.

It's the pharicies and the sleepers and the little Christs.

Edited by prophex, : No reason given.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 12243
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 8 of 60 (361746)
11-05-2006 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by joshua221
11-05-2006 1:04 AM


The Agony and the Irony
What is really ironic about the whole concept of war and human nature...at least in my mind...is the way that it looks to me from the fundamentalist Christian perspective. The irony of the Endtimes views that I learned back when I was a "simpleminded" Christian is that the final wars will be the result of an antichrist spirit---either as one man deifying himself or as a people deifying their ideology.

The irony of the Christian view is that when it becomes a national policy it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.

This nation, were it truly a Christian nation, would not be trying to change the internal cultures of other countries under the guise of allowing them freedom.

Human nature has always embraced some form of nationalism and national interest in any great power throughout History.

We are no different---and we may have to have a bit of a bloody war before we come to our senses and realize the limitations of our human impulses.


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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4021 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 9 of 60 (361772)
11-05-2006 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
11-04-2006 11:59 PM


I haven't seen the Movie yet.

Rudyard Kipling however answered your question of why...

"If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied."

Kevin Tillman the brother of Pat Tillman wrote a moving and insightful piece (a poem really) in the same form as Kipling's "If".

Both Kipling's line, which was about WW1, and Kevin's essay are both contemporary and yet timeless I suggest each Republican chicken hawk read it.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/


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NewYorkCityBoy
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 60 (361862)
11-05-2006 2:18 PM


thats gonna be a good movie
i havent seen it yet but it looks real good. i think that anybody who is a proud patriot and goes to war for his country is a hero. and anyone who thinks differently can suck my balls.
Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 11 of 60 (361868)
11-05-2006 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
11-04-2006 11:59 PM



Fascinating thesis....... *sigh*..................
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 12 of 60 (361874)
11-05-2006 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by NewYorkCityBoy
11-05-2006 2:18 PM


Re: thats gonna be a good movie
gay
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 Message 10 by NewYorkCityBoy, posted 11-05-2006 2:18 PM NewYorkCityBoy has not yet responded

joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 13 of 60 (361879)
11-05-2006 2:43 PM


War is wrong, but many accept war because of the "sacrifice" that soldiers put forth.

The funny thing is, is that the sacrifice was not made, in effect, to help the ones who used war as a way of gaining power/money. Leaders would like to think that the deaths were for their idea of freedom, and of preserving our "way of life", our borders, our nation's supremacy. Haha, that is all crap. National Pride had nothing to do with their deaths.

The men who died out there did not think that they were dying for money and power. They knew exactly what they were fighting for. ON BOTH SIDES.

They were dying for eachother, as messed up as it all was, and savage, and animalistic. They died for their friends, Ira Hayes would have died for his men as his general Mike did.

When they died, they could have laughed in the face of those elitist wagers of war.

And wouldn't God laugh with them?

It's so absurd. Men bombing and attacking and killing. It's beyond absurd. They would say that they did not die for nothing. (It seems like this is at the root of the real reasoning behind those who feel so connected to war, and to veterans.) Although it is always horrible, we can know that they didn't get absurdly destroyed for those power hungry fools, and for society. They took the sacrifice for their friends.


joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 14 of 60 (361882)
11-05-2006 2:48 PM


No war has ever been justifiable. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo fire. It's disgusting. How could one justify those deaths. Make amends for that?

But this topic was meant to reveal the hopelessness and absurdity of war, and why, in fact, those who sent and waged wars did not benefit from the deaths. The men died thinking of only those that they loved. It's not about this laughable invention called society and freedom. Rights? Haha - freedom is man.


Replies to this message:
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NewYorkCityBoy
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 60 (361883)
11-05-2006 2:49 PM


war is a bad thing and i wish that we had world peace, but i live in the real world and know that that is just not going to happen.
my dad has been in many wars and u had better not be talkin crap about him. because unless uve been to war and served the ur country u dont have the right to talk about them. they go to war to defend their family,friends,country,values, and every thing they believe in. if u cant respect the sacrifices they made i say u get the hell up out of the USA.
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