the new and improved obama thread

Except that it's true. Who were the Founding Fathers? Wealthy white men. Who constitutes the vast majority of Congress, the Supreme Court, and botht he President and Vice President? Wealtyh white men. Such has been the case since the founding. Why do you think it's such a big deal that we may finally elect a female or black President? Not rich? Really. Who pays the lobbyists who push corporate agendas in Congress all the freaking time? What percentage of the legislative branch is white and male? Excuse me? Even 100 years ago, blacks were barely "free" in this country. They were still denied basic rights and treated as less than whites. The same goes for Chinese, Native Americans, and anyone else not white. Hell, 100 years ago, women couldn't vote. So how precisely do you say that we've had minority representation in government for the past 200 years? Are you that ignorant of history? Oh, it's racist, certainly. Racist comments are not always factually incorrect. Statistically speaking, you can make distinctions regarding race. It is a fact that a disproportionate percentage of young black males are in prison, for instance. The problem is when you assume that all young black males are criminals or dangerous, since that is completely not true. You can also say that a disproportionate percentage of the wealthy are white, but that also doesn't mean all whites are wealthy. All of those statements are racist though, even the factually correct ones.It's also factually correct to say that the United states is currently and always has been ruled primarily (not completely) by wealthy white males. We have had poor men become Presidents (Lincoln, for example), but only a fool believes that wealthy white men do not and have not had an extremely disproportionate amount of control over this nation since its founding.You're whining because you don't like what Rev. Wright said, not because it's factually wrong. And besides that fact, do you agree with every single word your pastor says? I certainly didn't when I was a Christian. I seriously doubt Obama does, either. Why on Earth does what his pastor said nearly a decade ago have anything at all to do with Obama? I wonder what we'd find if we analyzed everything Bush's preacher has said in the past 10 years?At least this might start to erase that idiotic lie that Obama is a Muslim. I'm really, really sick of that one.

Who cares if it's racist? All that matters is whether his statements are factually correct. Are blacks, on the whole, mistreated severely in Chicago? Yes! Now,I'll agree that a lot of what Rev. Wright has said is sketchy conspiracy theory at best, and outright falsehoods at worst - like the insinuation that HIV was developed by the government to combat "people of color."But some of what he says is true. The words "god damn America" are certainly going to rile up anyone who holds patriotism above looking at what was actually said, ("he doesn't wear the lapel pin," anyone?) but when he's talking about the widespread, systematic oppression of blacks in America (some of which was false, some of which was very true), can you honestly say that you wouldn't have a similar perspective if those things had happened to you, or your family members, or even simply people of your race?It's true that there is a disproportionately large population of blacks currently in prison.It's true that there are systematic policies even now im place that work to oppress blacks in many areas of the country, apparently including Chicago.It's true that schools are becoming more and more segregated according to race.Is it racist to point these things out, and be angry about them? By the definition of racism, sure - it's just a discrimination based on race. But it's not factually incorrect. Technically speaking, Martin Luther King Jr's "I have a dream" speach was "racist" because it discussed race.Racism is not inherantly bad - in cases like civil rights activists such as MLK, or simple statistical analasys of racial distribution in socioeconomic backgrounds, education, prison, etc, distinctions along racial lines will become apparent and be discussed.Racism becomes bad when one race proclaims superiority over another, or judges a person based on their race and no further information.There's a large difference. Rev. Wright is not proclaiming "black superiority." He's expressing his outrage at the continuing systematic oppression of blacks in the country. I'll agree that some of the actions he's decrying are along conspiracy-theorist nutjob lines. But a lot of it is very true, and I'd say he's perfectly justified in being upset. Amazing. I was just discussing this yesterday with my girlfriend, and I said "At least this might finally eliminate that bullshit about Obama being a Muslim. But then again, I wonder how many complete morons will find some way to believe both."And here you are, Buz.I don't care what religion the President is, Buz. The Constitution doesn't care, either - in fact, the Constitution says it's irrelevant.All of this "ZOMG he's a Muslim!" fearmongering is the idiotic Red Scare all over again. You're just another version of McCarthy, accusing people of being a Communist on the barest hint of leaning in that direction - like having a name that's distincively of Muslim origin.You want the truth? I would vote for Obama even if he was a Muslim, because your whackjob conspiracy theory about Muslims trying to take over the world is nothing more than fearmongering on your part. Not all Muslims are terrorists, Buz. Hell, if you really want to go down that idiotic road, all Christians must be terrorists, too!Christians comprise the entirety of the KKK, and they have certainly been a terrorist organization in the past, when they could get away with property damage and murder.Timothy McVeigh was a Christian, and he blew up the Oklahoma City Federal building.Do you really want a Christian running the country, Buz?Honestly, your fearmongering and paranoia are the base, instincual reactions of an animal who was hurt by one human, and is now afraid of all humans.You haven't even named a single policy of Obama's that you disagree with, from what I've seen. If all you can attack is this idiot strawman/red herring regarding his religion, or some opinions regarding his pastor that he's already said he doesn't agree with, then you aren't going to be very effective.

That's the same level of reliability as where I've seen it. Honestly, I'm having trouble finding an actual transcript. If anybody finds one, please do tell.I'm treating the statements as accurate until I see a transcript lacking them.

Not at all, and I don't think Wright is saying that either. From what I've read (and again, I dont have a full transcript, so it's very difficult for me to ascertain what he's actually saying), it sounds more like he's decrying all of the policies that have been put in place agains blacks, and the continued social disproportionalities that exist today.To a degree, that is the fault of those who "run the show." Numerically speaking, that does constitute white males. It's not, however, solely the fault of white males. Racial issues in our society are incredibly complex - you can't really place "blame" effectively. It's a collective issue that we all need to work on improving: blacks whites, and every other race. Who says they have to be connected in any way? One can express anger at the fact that black populations in the US are more often poor, are more often in jail, are less often educated, etc without saying that those things are the direct result of racism. There's a lot more at play in those societal issues, I think. But when there are cases of policies that systematically discriminate against the poor (who are more likely to be black), can you really blame him for being angry?I'm very distressed by the fact that there are so many black males in prison compared to whites. I have no idea whether this is casued by an issue of culture, poverty, racial discrimination, education, or a combination of one or more of these and other factors, but I'm still appalled and upset that so many black males are in prison.Again - this is very difficult to discuss without a full transcript of what Rev. Wright actually said. I feel like I'm flying half-blind here - all I have to go on are the most-offensive of his comments as reported by such dubious outles as Fox News. I'm defending his comments even without context because I have seen the way that blacks are treated in some parts of this country. Saying "racism isn't dead" is like saying the Himalayas "aren't exactly hills." I'm not so sure about that. As a white male who grew up in an environment where I never even met a non-white, non-Christian until I was 12 years old, and lived even after that in primarily "white" areas, I didn't think racism was a very large problem either. Then I spent a year in the South, and worked with a few black individuals - it's really appalling when you start to see, with your own eyes, how large a problem racism is. Not really. I have a couple of teachers I would qualify as "mentors," but I honestly have no idea what their positions are on certain matters, even ones as large as racial inequality. Hell, I don't even know what my own parents' position is on evolution/creation! Even someone you're very close to may have opinions you don't agree with, and aren't even aware of.

Before that speech, Obama already had my vote because I liked him more than the alternatives.After that speech, he has my vote no matter who is running against him. I certainly don't agree with him on everything, but I feel like for the first time I'm not accepting the lesser of two evils, but instead I actually want this guy to be the President.