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Author Topic:   Ruling: No Separation of Church and State?
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 13 of 66 (272356)
12-24-2005 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by randman
12-23-2005 4:39 PM


Respecting ...?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
Lots of definitions of "respect" available, but I'm pretty sure this is the one they were shooting for:
re·spect
To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
So, the point is to have Congress avoid making laws that are pro-one religion or anti-some other religion.
Is that a "seperation of church and state"? Not entirely.
For example, the Supreme Court could hand down a decision based solely on their religious views. It would not violate this clause - since the clause refers to Congress.
Additionally, the President could veto a bill on solely religious views and likewise not violate this clause.
However, there's clearly more going on here. What's being said is this "The Government should not be taking sides in religious debate."
Likewise, the Government should not be handing money to one group or people based on their religion, they shouldn't be giving people a pass to break the law based on their religion, and they certainly shouldn't be twisting the laws of the land to fit into a specific idiology of an individual religion.
And, while the true power of the US Government SHOULD reside in the Congress, it has steadily been pulled toward the Executive branch.
So, when people complain about seperation of Church and State, what they are really saying now adays is that they don't like how the unconstitutional powers of the Executive are being steered by non-elected officials who cowtow to extreme religious groups.
After all, Ashcroft ANNOINTED HIMSELF IN OIL upon taking office as AG! That's more than just a little weird.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by randman, posted 12-23-2005 4:39 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by randman, posted 12-24-2005 3:50 AM Nuggin has not replied
 Message 17 by Silent H, posted 12-24-2005 5:12 AM Nuggin has replied
 Message 20 by Rrhain, posted 12-24-2005 6:08 AM Nuggin has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 23 of 66 (272468)
12-24-2005 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Funkaloyd
12-24-2005 4:04 AM


Re: Respecting ...?
Exactly what I was about to write

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Funkaloyd, posted 12-24-2005 4:04 AM Funkaloyd has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 24 of 66 (272469)
12-24-2005 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Silent H
12-24-2005 5:12 AM


Re: Respecting ...?
Yeah! The guy is a FREAK!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Silent H, posted 12-24-2005 5:12 AM Silent H has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 25 of 66 (272474)
12-24-2005 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Rrhain
12-24-2005 6:08 AM


Re: Respecting ...?
The true power of the US government, as was intended from the very beginning, **** among all three branches.
That's not entirely true. There are checks and balances, but look at them.
The Executive can veto the Congress, but the Congress can over turn the Veto.
The Congress can oust the President, the President can not throw out a Congressman.
The Supreme Court can strike down a law of Congress - (BEST PART OF THE GOVERNMENT!!!) but they can not generate law themselves.
Only Congress can declare war.
The original lay out clearly puts more power in Congress (where is should reside, since it's a deliberative body). The founders were sick of power residing in one man (King) and having him wield it unchecked.
**** -- Weird, it astericked me as well on li es

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by nwr, posted 12-24-2005 1:42 PM Nuggin has replied
 Message 34 by Rrhain, posted 12-24-2005 9:16 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 27 of 66 (272478)
12-24-2005 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by nwr
12-24-2005 1:42 PM


Re: Respecting ...?
Yeah, hence my earlier post about the problems with the power shift toward the executive.
Congress should control the real power of the Government, the executive should be little more than a figure head.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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