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Author
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Topic: Why Would God Care?
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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The question I have, given this scenario, is why God would care that little Jimmy Highschoolboy touches himself at night. What makes you think god cares? Or, are you asking why is it considered a sin? I don't think calling something a sin neccessarily means that god cares about it in the sense that you are using it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-13-2007 9:03 PM | | Dan Carroll has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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What makes you think god cares?
Read the post directly above yours.
quote:
So far I don't see that you've shown that God claims to care. If he doesn't, any restriction people place on their behavior for the sake of religion alone is a pretty major waste of time
Not if the behavior seperated them from god (sin) even if god doesn't care (my wacked out version of the word).
I'd want to know what whacked out version of the word "care" you're using. I'm using it in the sense you did in the OP that if god is taking care of this whole universe, why would he care about one negligible part. I think that he doesn't care, but that it is still important to limit the bahaviors that seperate you from god. I don't see hell as god punishing you because he's mad at your behaviors. I see it as you seperating yourself from god far enough that you can't come back. But that is off topic.
I don't think calling something a sin neccessarily means that god cares about it in the sense that you are using it. A sin is an action which God feels should be punished by eternal torture.
That's not how I define sin. I'd define it as an act that seperates you from god. So, even if god doesn't care that I seperate myself from him, it doesn't mean that it is a waste of time for me to avoid the behaviors that seperate me from him. Make sense?
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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So basically, you're arguing that without any action on God's part whatsoever, we get damned if we sin, because of some cosmic law of spiritual cause and effect. Sin, get separated, get damned, all without intervention from God. Well sorta, but like you said... it would all be a par of God's Plan (TM). But I do agree that its kinda stupid that god would say something like: "Well, Johnny, I was going to let you into heaven but you touched yourself so burn in hell forever." That's why I think he doesn't care, in the sense that he watching us touch ourselves (wierdo) and then picking these little things out as reasons to torture us later.
Otherwise he must have had some reason for it. I put the blame on ourselves for seperating ourselves from him. And I think it takes a lifetime of seperating via different methods to finally get the point of damnation (or maybe one really really big one, i dunno). What I'm trying to say is that I don't think that god cares that you touch yourself at night, but it isn't doing anything to bring you closer to god, so it isn't totally pointless to avoid the behavior. You said that if god doesn't care then its pointless to avoid it, I don't think that is neccassarily true. You're right, though, that he set the whole thing up and that he must have some reason for it.
Of course, to be able to say God didn't care, this would have to be a law that God didn't set into motion. Why is that? Couldn't the law be faily simple and not get down to the gnat's ass on what you're touching? Something like: any behavior that seperated you from me could lead to your damnation. But go and do whatever you want, I don't care.
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Oh. So he does care. Why? Why not? Because you think we're so insignificat? Maybe we're in 1st place. I think he cares because we're his.
To continue the anthill metaphor, would you take the time to approach a colony of ants, and tell them that if they step outta line, they're gonna suffer? Especially if you don't care at all about ants? I was taking a wizz out in the woods while not realizing my right leg was on an anthill. They started crawling up my leg, which made it feel like it was going to sleep. I looked down and saw the ants about knee high. I proceded to kill every ant on me and brush them off while not trying to piss on myself. After I was clean, I admired the anthill and walked back to my friends. I didn't care at all about the ants and they suffered for stepping out of line.
Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence. Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith. Science has failed our world. Science has failed our Mother Earth. -System of a Down, "Science" He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man. -Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: Does God Claim to Care?
The trivial matters I'm talking about are the ones forbidden by major religions. If masturbation isn't your fancy, pick any one you please. If God forbids an act, that means he cares if we do it or not. Like I said in my first reply:
quote:
are you asking why is it considered a sin?
Its because they seperate you from god. God is something and some behaviors remove you from what god is. I don't think god cares or gets mad and punishes you for seperating youself from him. When you seperate yourself from god you're "damned" to be without god.
My question is for those who believe these acts are forbidden. I think they're forbidden so that people realize what they are doing when they do them. If they are, in fact, sin, then forbidding them worked as a way to prevent them, thus keeping many people from seperating themselves from god. It seems that as people are catching on, that simply forbidding is not the best method and that learning how the behavior seperates you from god but also how god doesn't really care, you just need to watch out on the seperating and try to stay close.
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Cool. We're more important than anything in the universe. That we know of...
Maybe if you really try had, you can not care so much that you write a book for ants that explains, in ant language, about why they must not climb your leg while you piss. That would really be not caring. Why do you positively think that god cares? I realize that you think that if he doesn't care then restricting behaviors is a waste of time. But other than the consequence of him not caring, why do you think that he does?
you can not care so much that you write a book for ants that explains, in ant language, about why they must not climb your leg while you piss To further the analogy, "not climbing my leg while I piss" would be composed of multiple actions. I would not need to care about some of them as long as they weren't "climbing my leg while I piss". Now, jacking off could be one of those actions that has been deemed as included in "climbing god's leg while he's pissing", while not being significant enough for god to care about.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-22-2007 10:16 AM | | Dan Carroll has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: Does God Claim to Care?
Little known fact about arguments: if you repeat them without adding anything new, they get better. How does that affect the price of tea in China?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 79 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-22-2007 10:18 AM | | Dan Carroll has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Your reason for thinking that god cares is:
quote:
If he doesn't, any restriction people place on their behavior for the sake of religion alone is a pretty major waste of time.
That is a negetive reason for why you think he doesn't not care. Do you have a positive reason for why you think that he does?
We spent several posts hashing it out, which I have no interest in repeating. If there's something you find lacking in the logic of those posts, feel free to point it out directly.
I find the answer insufficient. Plus, I've already explained how there are reasons for placing restrictions on behaviors that god doesn't care about. Simply repeating an insufficient answer doesn't actually answer the question.
And if we were doing something that actively hurts God, (which would be kinda difficult, what with the omnipotence and all,) then yes, I think it definitely would make sense for him to care. Well then I think you are needlessly getting down to the gnat's ass on what god cares about. I think it would be better to look at the big picture rather than look for inconsistencies when you zoom in real close.
But even then, look how you reacted to the ants. Again, it was not by attempting to mold their culture so they would feel shame when they climbed your leg. It was to say, "ACK, ANTS!" and step on them. But I'm not capable of communicating with ants and I'm far from godly.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 84 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-22-2007 10:51 AM | | Dan Carroll has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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You are difficult to communicate with.
However, there are those who believe he is real, and their system of belief logically requires that he give a shit about what happens on this planet. I am asking why they think that way. Becuase they have a misunderstanding.
If you'd like to point to an important idea of yours that I left unaddressed, feel free. I'll be happy to go back to it. quote:
you writes: Of course, to be able to say God didn't care, this would have to be a law that God didn't set into motion. Why is that? Couldn't the law be faily simple and not get down to the gnat's ass on what you're touching? Something like: any behavior that seperated you from me could lead to your damnation. But go and do whatever you want, I don't care.
To continue the anthill metaphor, would you take the time to approach a colony of ants, and tell them that if they step outta line, they're gonna suffer? Especially if you don't care at all about ants?
That doesn't answer my question.
point where you found a flaw in my logic I think you've made a strawman god...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 88 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-22-2007 12:00 PM | | Dan Carroll has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Only if your method of communication involves running backwards and repeating previous points that have already been addressed as though nothing was said. Well you put more effort into being funny than actually getting your point across. And all the sarcasm does lead to confusion, when it actually has anything to do with a reply to the point. But whatever...
According to you, God cares about our behavior. Why is that?
Because we are his and he loves us...awww 
Oh. Well, I think you're just plain wrong, but do not feel the need to explain why. Isn't this fun? I think I've lost you. You asked me to point out the flaws in your logic. Your flaw is in the image of god you've painted.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 91 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-22-2007 12:44 PM | | Dan Carroll has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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If you don't get my point by now, there is absolutely nothing I can do for you. Your point went from asking why god cares about little johnny touching himself to a much bigger question of why does god care about us, in general, at all.
Good to know. God cares because he cares. Thank you for this stunning insight. Yup, that's about it. Its not really that easy of a question to answer.
Under no circumstances should you attempt to explain what this flaw is. I've been trying to the whole time.
Does anybody have a direct response to an incredibly simple question? Anyone at all? Maybe they don't wnat to respond because all they'll get is a smart-ass remark. Or maybe because underneth its disguise, your question is not all that simple, or even answerable.
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Do not read the title of the thread. It will only confuse you. Actually, it was the OP that made it confusing. You outlined an insignificant scenario when all you were asking is why does god care about us. There's plenty of answers for why... Because: we're his, he created us, he loves his creation, he is caring by definition, because we are significant, blah blah blah. Its a bunch of wishy-washy crap, IMHO. But I still don't think those are the answers you're looking for.
except for the part where you're supposed to actually explain what the flaw is. In words. I did, though. Its a strawman god.
Hey, I think "there's no answer to that question" is a valid response. Makes religion a little ridiculous, but I guess that's between a believer and their faith.
How does not being able to explain why god cares to an offensive, sarcastic smart-ass make religion ridiculous? There's lots of reasons for why god would care about us, I mean, we're supposedly his children, why wouldn't he care? Because you think we're so insignificant in the grand scheme of things?
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Avoiding types of behavior for the sole reason that God has decreed it, when you can't even point to a valid reason why God would care one way or the other, is fairly ridiculous. Yes, it is. I don't know of anyone who does that though, so...so what?
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Then what are all those "sin" things I've heard so much about?
I don't strive to avoid sin for the sole reason that god decrees it.
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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then you're being purposefully disingenuous lol, that's what you're all about
But if you're going to insist that nobody does, or that it's not a major part of religion, Show me where a religion says that you should avoid a behavior soley because god decrees it.
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