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Member (Idle past 2521 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Why are all Christians atheists? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nuggin Member (Idle past 2521 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
well sure, if we define "praying" as "breathing" or "farting" then we can say that all atheists do both these things very regularly.
Let's also define "attending church" as "preforming acts of child molestation"and "shopping for a sweater" as "launching rockets to the moon" Guess what, words have meanings. If we just decide that all definitions are off, then anyone can say anything and it's completely valid. Green cow fling nickle book poop circular desk. Argue that
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tudwell Member (Idle past 6007 days) Posts: 172 From: KCMO Joined: |
Nuggin writes: The question is not "do Christians acknowledge that there is divine power by any name?", the question is "why do Christians insist that given then exact same data, their conclusion is absolutely right and all other conclusions deserve death." That's a different question than the one raised in the OP and in the title. I don't see the word 'atheist' anywhere in that question. It's a non sequitur. It has nothing to do with my reply. But besides that, what makes you think they all have the same data? Earlier, you classified these data as evidence (physical, empirical) and magic (spiritual, mental). But this 'magic' is subjective by its very nature. Each individual has his own set of data. We can't know that any two people have ever contacted the same 'God', so why should they reach the same conclusion? And, as jar pointed out, you're grossly mischaracterizing modern Christianity.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
Finish reading my entire post. Refuting the 1 point that I predict you refuting, doesn't exactly work in your favor I don't do colloquial terminology. You've got to realise that I seek something more than informal responses, in order to suffice. But you've misunderstood the quote you provided. Number 3, for example requires that you act on the belief. For example, you BELIEVE that walking under ladders brings bad luck so you don't walk under ladders. You obey the faulty reasoning. Defining what superstition is, doesn't prove belief in God is superstition of itself. Exacting deduction will, which is what I require. That's not to say that religion cannot take part in superstition. I'm sure many Christians, including myself, act superstitiously according to their own beliefs, at times. And some religions might be based on pure superstition. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5019 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
If the belief that God's image on Earth died for one's sins and that one must embrace him lest face eternal damnation isn't a superstition then I don't know what is.
Merriam Webster writes:
Superstition1 a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition 2 : a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary Religion has elements that fit into all of these defintions, but let us focus on the idea of causation..... Walking under a ladder invokes bad luck.Rejecting God/Jesus invokes eternal damnation. Neither of these causal relationships has any empirical basis, therefore on this point alone they may both be fairly characterized as superstitions. No amount of word-salad on your part can avoid this. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2521 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
So, you want someone to prove to you that their usage of a word corresponds to your own personal definitions. Give me a break.
If a word has 5 possible definitions and any one of them fit, then the word was "by definition" used correctly. Trees are green. You can say, well "green" can mean "new" and not all trees are new, therefore I don't accept your definition. I gave you 5 definitions of superstition, 3 of which, by your own lack of response, are unchallengable. Two of which we could argue about. But since I only need to be correct with 1 of the 5, I'm gonna consider this debate over. If you want to play with your own dictionary, please, by all means, do so. Just do it offline and save us all the aggrevation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Nuggin writes: If we just decide that all definitions are off, then anyone can say anything and it's completely valid. Well, you've demonstrated in this very thread that you make assumptions about "all" Christians that don't really apply to all Christians. I'm just suggesting that you should be careful about assuming that you know what "prayer" means to "all" Christians. For some people, there's a fine line between prayer and meditation. And for some people, meditation has nothing to do with God. So if you're going to use "prayer" to distinguish between theists and atheists, you'd better have a pretty clear idea of what constitutes prayer. You don't seem to. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
If the belief that God's image on Earth died for one's sins and that one must embrace him lest face eternal damnation isn't a superstition then I don't know what is. 1. It has nothing to do with belief in God, solely.(My claim)2. I'm not talking about one interpretation of a Christian, or religions. I'm talking about belief in God - so it's utterly moot. Belief in God itself has nothing whatsoever to do with burning in hell. That's a non-sequitur. Belief in God and religions aren't the same thing. I am referring to the former. Why would I be arrogantly referring to Christians only? What about Pantheists or Deists. I refer to anyone with a beleif in god, not faulty religious interpretations of scripture. Belief in God, of itself, doesn't qualify as a superstition under the common definition, as of itself, it requires nor claims to cause anything..it is merely a conviction. There are two things you and Nuggin can't seperate. Belief and superstitious belief. If any belief was a superstition, then logically, superstition would have no definition, as we would have one term, which would be belief. Think long and hard about that sentence. Because consequentially, superstitious belief, would then be nothing more than a grammatical tautology. Google it. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
So, you want someone to prove to you that their usage of a word corresponds to your own personal definitions. Give me a break. - So you want ducks to bite their wings off and fly to the moon? - Now surely that's an accurate assesment of your posts! Let's test your reasoning then;
I gave you 5 definitions of superstition Yes. That's fine so far.
3 of which, by your own lack of response, are unchallengable Ahh...the ship sinks. What exactly does that mean? Is it consequential - am I supposed to treat your claims as true because you provided definitions? How odd.
But since I only need to be correct with 1 of the 5, I'm gonna consider this debate over That's fine........a bit like believing that the fight ends when the first boxer puts his boxing gloves on.
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nator Member (Idle past 2198 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Superstition is a subset of belief.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2521 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Note that though you respond to the post, you still have not addressed the 3 definitions.
If you're the boxer without the gloves, than I guess you analogy is correct. Next time you wanna step in the ring, please suit up.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2521 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Careful Nator,
Mike has not yet approved the use of the word "is" or "a", let alone with word "subset". You may spend the next 20 posts having to break down your simple sentence into much smaller bite sized pieces.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2521 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
You've managed to completely confuse the whole point of this particular substring within the string.
The original statement was something to the effect that "all atheists are theists". I couldn't give a rat's ass how all the various Christians define prayer vs meditation. I'm simply saying that if you wanna accept sentences like "All atheists are theists" then you need to further accept all sentences like "Green circle boxcar feather monkey" as being equally valid - since clearly none of these words have any meaning or context.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5981 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
nator writes: They spend a lot of time saying that their religion is the One True Faith, but I don't recall many fundies claiming to have seriously considered any other religion with an open mind before settling upon fundamentalist christianity. Could be, but many 'fundies' did go thru a point of seriously considering fundamentalism with an open mind!
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Nuggin writes: I'm simply saying that if you wanna accept sentences like "All atheists are theists".... And I'm simply saying that you can't distinguish atheists from theists on the basis of prayer. (As far as the OP is concerned, I sorta halfway agree with it. I just think you're doing a really bad job of defending it. Maybe you're just out of your depth, like you are with your attempts at sarcasm. ) Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2521 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
But prayer has nothing to do with the sentence.
It's like me saying "Trees are green" and you saying "well depends on how you define bushes." Sure bushes and trees are tangentially related, but your sentence is a total non-seq to the original statment
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