Is the Global Flood Feasible? Discussion Q&A

If I may:mark24, Mount Everest did not exist as such in world before the Flood in the Flood scenario. Therefor covering it with water was not a problem. How did Mt. Everest form in the Flood scenario? Land masses colliding at about 45 mph, perhaps. Or do you think that the slow process we observe today could cause the sharp peaks we now observe in high mountain ranges?Where did the water go? Back into the oceans where the basins had dropped, filling in the area vacated by the out-pouring of the fountains of the deep.------------------
John Paul

mark24:
I've gone to some lengths to show that there is no reason to believe tectonic activity proceeded at a very different rate from today, consequently the himalayas were that height 4,000 years ago. You need to argue evidence.John Paul:
You also said that Everest was in excess of 6 miles above sea level. However it it less than 30,000 feet above sea level, which is less than 6 miles. And as I also stated if the rate of plate tectonics was the same throughout world history we wouldn't see 'peaks' on mountains. The peaks scream of a faster process than we now observe.mark24:
What evidence is there that the ocean basins rose, & give evidence of mechanisms.John Paul:
Actually they sank. It is the same affect that caused the WTC to 'pancake'- something called gravity. After all the water from the fountains of the deep were on top of the earth, that added pressure caused the ocean basins to drop into the void left by those waters.------------------
John Paul

moose:
2) The non-organic planet Earth - Also very complex - Detailed scientific study (seemingly) can't explain it to the creationist's satisfaction, however (in part), they wish to explain it a being from a simple natural process (the "great flood).John Paul:
That only works if you think the Great Flood was a 'simple natural process'. However my guess would be this type of thinking is totally incorrect. Fountains of the deep erupted, Mountains rose, ocean basins sank and the one landmass became many. I doubt very much it was 'simple'.
It reminds me of a Rube Goldberg machine...------------------
John Paul

Just a thought:If there was a global flood, with massive, rapid plate movements and other processes, what would the evidence look like? I mean with what could we use as a reference? Definetly not local flooding.Also what sucks for us Creationists is that God could also erase any signs of intervention. Afterall the purpose of the global flood was to 'wipe the slate clean' and start over. That would mean the only 'evidence' is God's Word as read from the Bible. Hardly scientific, I agree, but that doesn't mean it wasn't so.------------------
John Paul

Mark24:
John-Paul,
I stand to be corrected, but I thought there was no further divine interference after flood waters subsided? At least this is the ICR's stance.John Paul:
There needn't be any further intervention after the flood waters subsided. God, being the Almighty Creator, could have (yes could have) erased all signs of intervention during the flood. Again that is the problem facing Creationists in trying to provide evidence. And yes, it is a problem. That said, is also important to note that ICR or AiG are not direct pipelines to the Lord and therefore they too can only speculate- using the Bible as a reference.But actually I still wondering "what do we use as a point of reference to find evidence for such a catastrophe?" What do we compare what we do see, knowing that is so many thousands of years and other processes after, with?------------------
John Paul

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by John Paul:
If I may:
mark24, Mount Everest did not exist as such in world before the Flood in the Flood scenario. Therefor covering it with water was not a problem. How did Mt. Everest form in the Flood scenario? Land masses colliding at about 45 mph, perhaps.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
schraf:
Land masses moving at 45 mph?? Are you insane?John Paul:
No. Dr. Brown has a model showing how it happened.schraf:
The Earth would be destroyed from the heat produced from the friction alone.John Paul:
Guess what? The Earth was destroyed. That was the point.schraf:
When two tectonic plates touch each other a tiny bit, entire cities can be, and often are, destroyed.John Paul:
Tectonic plates do touch each other. It is when they shift that earthquakes occur.schraf:
The idea of entire contiments flying around at 45 mph, as you suggest they did, is completely ridiculous.John Paul:
Thanks for your baseless assertion.schraf:
You are firmly entrenched in trying to cram reality into your tiny little version of how events "had" to have happened. You are starting to look silly.John Paul:
And your materialistic naturalism skirt is showing.schraf:
You are pulling this stuff out of somewhere but it sure isn't any kind of geology or physics text.John Paul:
It's called Scripture and scientists that perform research under its framework.quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or do you think that the slow process we observe today could cause the sharp peaks we now observe in high mountain ranges?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
schraf:
Why are they "too sharp" for you?John Paul:
No. Can you show that the slow process we observe today can account for such peaks? If not just say so.schraf:
We can measure the motion of the Indian subcontinent, for example. We see the evidence of its slow migration.John Paul:
And what does the rate NOW have anything to do with the rate in the past? My car is parked now. Applying your logic it never moved. LOL!
Do you have any evidence that physical law was suspended 4,500 years ago or whenever the flood was supposed to have happened?quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did the water go? Back into the oceans where the basins had dropped, filling in the area vacated by the out-pouring of the fountains of the deep.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
schraf:
Is there any physical evidence that these "fountains of the deep" ever existed??John Paul:
I don't know. All we have so far is the Lord's Word on it.------------------
John Paul

Mark, have you brought your objections to Walt Brown's 'theory' to his attention? You may have valid objections. If you think you do then debate him on it. I have engaged in numerous such debates with evolutionist websites. Just a thought.mark24:
What is the Lords word worth?John Paul:
More than man's (or woman's). mark24:
I have challenged YEC in this thread to bring forward unrefutable evidence of a flood of biblical proportions. This they have failed to do.John Paul:
How do you know that there isn't any evidence for a Global Flood as depicted in the Bible? Really, what would use as a reference?mark24:
It isn’t baseless, there is no evidence of tectonic activity moving continents at 45mph.John Paul:
There is also no evidence to support that the very slow tectonic movements can cause the peaks of mountains to form. So I guess we are at an impasse.mark24:
Scientists don’t perform research within scriptures framework, they make it FIT it.John Paul:
I could just as easily say "Scientists don't perform research within the materialistic naturalism framework, they make it FIT it.'------------------
John Paul

Mark, have you read any of John Baumgardner's work on runaway subduction? If not you really should. You appear better versed in geology than I am (sorry but that's really not saying much )Here's a link:Catastrophic Plate TectonicsIn Part III:We understand you've shown that as these floating blocks of rock push down into the material below, things get hotter, so the 'slipperyness' increases and there's a runaway effect. The faster they sink the hotter they get, so the faster they can sink.JB: Yes-rock that comprises the ocean floor is colder, and therefore denser than the rock below it, so it can sink into the earth's interior [see Figure 1--Click on thumbnail for details. Based on Tarbuck, p. 403] The properties of the rock inside the earth, especially at the high temperatures that exist there, make it possible for the colder rock from the earth's surface to peel away and sink in a runaway manner down through the mantle-very rapidly.So this 'happens' on your computer model all by itself, from the laws of science, over a short time-scale, not millions of years?JB: That's correct. Exactly how long is something I'm working to refine. But it seems that once this sinking of the pre-Flood ocean floor starts (in a conveyor-belt-like fashion down into the earth, pulling things apart behind it), it is not a slow process spanning millions of years. It's almost certain that it runs to completion and, recycles' all of the existing floor in a few weeks or months.------------------
John Paul