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Author Topic:   Racial Evolution 101
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5618 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 23 of 109 (102594)
04-25-2004 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Sylas
04-25-2004 12:01 PM


Re: Arthur Keith misrepresented... again
Sir Keith quoted in one post:
...The German Fhrer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution...
and the other post:
"It must not be thought that in seeking to explain Hitler's actions I am seeking to justify them. The opposite is the case. I have made this brief survey of public policy in modern Germany with a definite object: to show that Dr. Waddington is in error when he seeks to place ethics on a scientific basis by a knowledge of evolutionary tendencies and practice.
then you (sylas) says:
"The behaviour is not a result of accepting evolutionary explanations; and that is not Keith's position."
As far I can tell from the quotes, according to Sir Keith, the behaviour of the Nazi's is a result of conforming to the theory of evolution, a result of the Nazi's making ethics based on evolutionary theory. Sir Keith criticizes doctior Waddington who apparently wants ethics based on evolutionary theory.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Sylas, posted 04-25-2004 12:01 PM Sylas has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5618 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 29 of 109 (102742)
04-26-2004 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Garf
04-04-2004 12:17 AM


My own theory is, that Hitler became an anti-semite because of the political debates he had with communists and others in Vienna. He was at one time thrown out of a debate, and was very angry about that, and that's when he decided to become an anti-semite, I guess. Hitler's anti-semitism was a conscious deliberate decision more then a slow growth process. It's quite clear in Mein Kampf that he chose to hate Jews as some kind of life's fullfillment. The evil is surprisingly apparent. I mean it doesn't seem to matter if you would change the word anti-semite in the text into something like anti-racist, the straightforward evil would still drip from the text. The significant thing is the cold hatered to which he quite openly commits himself to as his life's fullfilment.
Apparently anti-semitism, or to vent your anger at some group, worked well for him emotionally, and when it also brought him a job and then fame and fortune, he was hooked on the murderous hatered. Hitler had apparently always been searching very desperately for some philosophy or religion that would set his life straight for him, and anti-semitism seemed to be it. Hitler asserted his anti-semitism as rational, and he distanced himself from what he called emotional forms of anti-semitism. It is unlikely that Hitler thought highly of Christian anti-semitism in respect to other forms of anti-semitism, since it probably would fall in the category of emotional anti-semitism for him. Besides that, he also despised Christianity as weak. Christianity had failed him previously in his search for some beliefs to get his life straight. He reconceived his Christianity in hateful anti-semitic terms, making Jesus a fighter in stead of a sufferer. It's hardly possible that Hitler conceived of Jesus as a fighter in stead of a sufferer when he was growing up. But he still seems to have found many useful things in his Christian upbringing for his new anti-semitism. For instance his aspirations for becoming a priest were useful for becoming a populist orator. Also his reconceived Christianity must have given him a large amount of emotional support. It appears to have been relatively easy for Hitler to convert his feelings associated to Christianity into anti-semitic hatered, only the "Jesus greatest as a fighter" doctrine, stands out as a tell-tale canard in this transformation exercise. Where Christianity also apparently played a large part is in bringing him fame and fortune, because of his antisemitism.
The working beliefs that Hitler entertained were just like Klaus Fischer sets out in his book the 12 year reich. Every organism is engaged in a ruthless struggle for existence, in which only the fittest can hope to survive. Nations like individuals are also engaged in a ruthless struggle for existence. etc. etc. It's a kind of philosophy which is very old and very common as far I can tell, for instance the predarwinist creationist Speke also talks in those kind of terms about races (which has become significant in relation to the genocide in Rwanda). But those beliefs had gotten a new and increased credibility through Darwinism, especially since Darwinist science was highly ideological, especially in Germany through Haeckel, who was the motor behind all sorts of ideological and pseudoscientific endeavours. I think the fact that the Hitleryouth were taught to deny Catholic teaching of equality, and to affirm Darwinist and Mendellian pseudoscience, says much about the beliefs of Nazi's. They used science to undermine established religion, meanwhile establishing a religion / life's philsophy of their own closely related to Darwinist science.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

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Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by redwolf, posted 04-26-2004 9:53 AM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5618 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 32 of 109 (102781)
04-26-2004 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by redwolf
04-26-2004 9:53 AM


As before, I think you are simply mistaken about it. The racist and genocidal beliefs associated to Darwinism come from the view of varieties of organism competively encroaching on each other. Same as it was in creationist Speke's doctrine about Hutu's and Tutsi's and other "races" competitively encroaching, in now predominantly catholic Rwanda.
I don't believe it comes from not recognizing God, and I'm pretty sure that Hitler did believe that God created man, even if his conception of God as "eternal nature" seems quite deist.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by redwolf, posted 04-26-2004 9:53 AM redwolf has not replied

  
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