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Member (Idle past 5083 days) Posts: 125 From: Brooklyn, New York Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Truth About Evolution and Religion | |||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
What shows a lack of understanding of statistical mechanics is the idea the the complexity of life came about by random mutations and natural selection. You have yet to show why this is. The differences between a complex and less complex species is due to differences in DNA. Random mutations changes the DNA and produces those differences. Natural selection filters those changes based on fitness. Where is the problem here?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
There are two problems: 1) This point of view is not supported by reputable biologist. It's supported by more than 99% of biologists, the very ones doing primary research in biology. But that is beside the point. The accuracy of a theory is not determined by a poll. It is determined by the evidence.
2) Life is too complex to be explained by such a process. I need something other than your incredulity as evidence.
Question: How long would it take a computer to generate "to be or not to be" by producing 18 letters and spaces randomly? Evolution isn't random, nor is there a set goal. Your example doesn't come close to being an analogy for biological evolution.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
I put this question to a panel of experts on evolution and I called them liars for not agreeing with me. One of us is lying. If you would start presenting evidence instead of logical fallacies it would sure help.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
The primary structure of a protein is complex because the location of each amino acid is known. So if I know the location of all of my socks in a drawer does that make my sock drawer complex?
Biological mechanism are complex for the same reason a TV set is complex. I don't think anyone is arguing that life is not complex on a qualitative level. The hard part is quantifying that complexity. Is complexity measured by the number of parts? Is complexity measured by the number of DNA pairs? Is complexity measured by the number of cells in an organism? What is the actual measure of complexity in life?
There is an addition amount of complexity arising from the development of a fully grown adult from a single fertilized egg. And strangely enough, that addition is completely natural.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Complexity is another word for order. The greater the knowledge we have of the location and properties of particles, the greater the amount of order or complexity. So if humans were not around to observe proteins then life would not be complex? In fact, we didn't even know about amino acids and nucleic acids until very recently. Does this mean that life was not complex until these things were discovered in the mid-1900's?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
It goes on to discuss the problem of explaining complexity from natural selection. At no point does it say Darwinism totally explains the complexity of life. The paper seeks to justify Darwinism. Really? In the conclusion section I find these quotes: "Our results demonstrate a clear natural selection for complexity in a driven, biased fashion." "Thus it can be seen that, at the scale of individuals comprising a species, evolution always guides trends in complexity." "Our current simulations reinforce this notion of natural selection driving the evolution of complexity at small scales, but driving it in all directionsup, down, and stable."
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
I'm not saying life is too complex to have evolved. I'm saying life is too complex to have evolved from facilitated variation, natural selection, random mutations, genetic drift, etc. Based on what evidence?
) The probability of getting a 300-amino-acid protein by random chance is 1 in 20300. Evolution is not random chance. Even more, how many functional 300 aa proteins are possible?
2) This probability is increased by considering natural selection and facilitated variation, but the odds are still very small.
Based on what calculations?
4) There is no peer reviewed work or text book that says natural selection explains the complexity of life. But they do say that there is tons of evidence that demonstrate evolution is the cause.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
I consider common descent a mystery, So you are incapable of figuring out that you and your siblings share a common ancestor? Perhaps you are overstating what we don't know. The genetic evidence is irrefutable. Species share a common ancestor. Such genetic features as ERV's, pseudogenes, and introns clearly indicate common ancestry. The only one who considers it a mystery is you.
According to Behe . . . In which peer reviewed article does he state this? Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
What scientists are doing is trying to find an explanation of evolution that is consistent with the second law. Evolution has little to do with the second law. All decreases in entropy on the Earth are dwarfed by the massive amounts of energy coming from the Sun.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
All a biologist needs to know about the second law is that the chance of getting a protein by random mutations is the reciprocal 20^600.
Evolution is not random chance. Evolution includes natural selection which makes it a non-random process.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
I wouldn't call it a conspiracy. I call it a scam debate between advocates of ID and Darwinists. The motivation of ID advocates is to promote religion and the motivation of Darwinists is to promote atheistic humanism. You are aware that 30-40% of biologists are theists, right? Are you saying that hundreds of thousands of people who believe in a deity are all conspiring to advance atheism? Or could it be that they are promoting good science in order to train good scientists?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
When I asked a panel of experts if evolution applied to the soul no one answered. Why? Because your religious beliefs have nothing to do with the accuracy of a scientific theory.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
I understand that a lot of layman think Darwinism explains the complexity of life. But biologists know better. Really? Here is an abstract from a paper where they use evolution to explain the complexity of eyes.
quote: A search for "evolution complexity" at http://www.pubmed.com returns over 3,000 hits. Perhaps you should do some reading before making such bold claims.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
The soul is not a religious belief. Yes, it is. Or have you never heard of missionaries trying to save souls?
It is a metaphysical category that biologists need to justify not including free will and conscious knowledge in their textbooks. Why do biologists need to justify your religious beliefs? Consciousness is a matter for neurobiology and it has nothing to do with souls.
Biologists only study the bodies of humans, not their souls. Biologists don't study flying reindeer, either. Do you wonder why?
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