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Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Ushering In An Age of Reason....Or Not.....? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi GDR, how goes the battle?
Straggler writes: There absolutely is an objectively evidenced basis for concluding that gods are human constructions though. The objective evidence clearly demonstrates that humans have a psychological proclivity to invoke false positive agency. As demonstrated by everything from conspiracy theories to fasle gods via imaginary friends and the imbuement of human-mind-like properties to inanimate objects and aspects of nature. And the "ALL" aspect is derived from inductive reasoning. So we have objective evidence combined with inductive reasoning leading to high cofidence but tentative conclusions. Methods of knowing that form the bedrock of all scientific conclusions. Methods of knowing that are demonstrably reliable. The objective evidence that you keep repeating tells us nothing at all about whether or not an actual intelligent first cause exists or not. It is completely and totally irrelevant. Sorry. It's worse than that. Straggler's much hyped "inductive reasoning" is really nothing but his own intuitive thinking (guessing), and his much ballyhooed "objectively evidenced basis" is nothing more than confirmation bias that has not yet shown that a single supernatural entity is a product of human imagination while ignoring other possibilities. The human ability to create fictional characters does not mean that non-fictional ones don't exist. Cowboy fiction stories do not mean that all cowboys are the product of human imagination. This is just another example of the all A Is B, B, therefore A logical fallacy.
Because something is in the B category does not mean it is in the A category: because a cowboy is in the B category does not mean it is in the A (fictional cowboy) category. This is how "inductive reasoning" gives you false results. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Typical Straqgler bias.
It seems to be the expectation (or at least hope) of the new atheists that an age of reason be ushered into existence. An age in which religious and other superstitious beliefs are sidelined into irrelevance by a near universal acceptance that rationality, reason and evidence based inquiry hold the key to human advancement and progress. Curiously, when anyone, atheists included, employs logical fallacies, pseudoskeptic arguments and pseudoscience, they are not contributing to a trend to increase rationality, reason and evidence based inquiry. The first step then, to promote a new age of reason, is to rid oneself of false logic and pseudoskeptical and pseudoscientific arguments. http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/toc.htmhttp://usabig.com/autonomist/fallacies.html One should become familiar with logical fallacies so that one can recognize them when they appear. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Pseudoskepticism
quote: One should become familiar with pseudoskepticism (and the false types of arguments used) so that one can recognize it when it appears. Pseudoscience - Wikipedia
quote: Equally, one should be aware of the pitfalls of pseudoscience (and the false types of arguments used) when it involves theistic and atheistic topics/arguments/positions, so that one can recognize them when they appear. A (much) better basis, imho, is open-minded skepticism and the honesty to say "we don't know" when the evidence is not sufficiently conclusive, meaning we can be open to the possibilities that are not contradicted by objective empirical evidence while remaining skeptical of views\positions that are not (or insufficiently) supported by evidence. Neither is an "age of reason" necessarily at odds with theism. The Age of Reason - Wikipedia
quote: Open-minded skepticism is neither religious nor anti-religious, it is unbiased in its evaluation of issues, topics, and positions. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : It appears that Panda thinks that logical fallacies, pseudoskeptic arguments and pseudoscience do contribute to a new age of reason if he dislikes this post. Amusingly, disliking a post doesn't make it false or invalid. Edited by RAZD, : inglashby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Your little logical constructions, as ever, fail to take into account that it is evidence rather than deductive logic that we are talking about. LOL. Straggles has consistently failed to present any such evidence to show that his pet conjecture is anything but opinion, wishful thinking and bias.
quote: Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : disliking a post does not change the truth of what is posted, it just exposes bias in the person that dislikes those truths.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Straggles still not understanding the issue/s ...
I can only repeat the things you have ignored previously. ... Curiously, I haven't ignored them, I've shown them to be false\poor thinking, while you have ignored my responses.
... Mod's summary is the most succinct. So here it is again: ALL of which amounts to wishful thinking, confirmation bias, personal opinion and pseudoskeptical rhetoric, not scientific investigation. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Pseudoskepticism
quote: Do you agree that pseudoskepticism is not a good foundation for a "new age of reason"? (can you answer yes or no?) AND, fascinatingly, after almost a year of debate this conjectural concept has STILL not identified a single supernatural entity as being a product of human imagination. Logically this means that you have no such evidence and are de facto operating based on personal opinion rather than facts that would actually substantiate your intuitive\inductive conjecture (==guess). It amuses me no end, that after long debates with you concerning the value of subjective evidence, that you are now trying to use YOUR subjective evidence in a debate.
The fact that no evidence supporting the existence of any supernatural entity has been forthcoming ... So how do you test for supernatural essence? Or are you just assuming that it is absent? ... is this like a Ben Franklin in a field without a means to test for the presence of electricity in lightening, deciding that electricity was not present when his kite was struck by lightening? Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : Curiously, "disliking" a post does not show it is wrong. You can dislike the truth, but that won't change it.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Straggles again,
The summary I provided was posted by Mod in Message 1292. That post is notable for your own lack of response. If you can show where you have tackled this evidence and feel that your rebuttal has been ignored then feel free to link to those posts and I have no doubt you will get the response you deserve. My response can be found on the Great Debate thread that the Peanut Gallery is supposed to be discussing rather than discussing the topic, and where I have been asked not to participate.
But in all honesty I have never seen you get past the whole falsification thing. Amusingly we haven't even begun to get to the "whole falsification thing" -- because there is not much point in trying to falsify every unsubstantiated assertion of opinion and wishful thinking that pops up, and that hasn't even been demonstrated to be an hypothesis yet. You have work to do first.
RAZD writes: Do you agree that pseudoskepticism is not a good foundation for a "new age of reason"? (can you answer yes or no?) The problem being that your definition of "pseudoskeptic" seems to only apply to testing the unfalsifiable things that you happen to believe in whilst not applying to those things that you don't. Curiously, it is not MY definition but THIS definition I've quoted: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Pseudoskepticism
quote: Again: do you agree that this type of behavior is NOT one that would be an appropriate foundation for "ushering" in a new age of reason? Yes or No (if you can).
Thus you will describe the Earth as "old, very, very, old" Message 30 ... Again, that is what the evidence and information show. The post linked details how that is shown by the evidence.
... despite never having tested Last Thursdayism Whether Last Thursdayism is true or not is (a) not testable and (b) irrelevant compared to the much broader question of whether or not evidence truthfully represents reality, which we also cannot test. We\science assume\s that the evidence truthfully represents reality, but we don't know that this is fact. We do not know that any scientific conclusion is fact. If you disagree with this, do you have a way to test this broader question?
But you dismiss any evidence suggesting that the concept of god is likely to be a human inventions on the basis that your particular version of god cannot be falsified. No, what I keep telling you is that you have not yet demonstrated this for a single god, all you have done is assert that this is so. And I keep telling you that without such demonstration with objective empirical evidence specific to a single god that your assertion of "likely" amounts to a typical pseudoskeptic argument: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Pseudoskepticism
quote: Again, this is not my definition or description, it is a description of behavior that is not, imho, appropriate for founding a "new age of reason" -- do you think it is? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi everyone
Now that AdminPhat has directed a return to the topic, perhaps we can actually discuss why these different things should or should not be used to usher in a new age of reason:
quote: In other words: Is it good or bad to employ logical fallacies?
Is it good or bad to employ pseudoskeptic arguments?
Is it good or bad to employ pseudoscience?
and Is it good or bad to employ openmindedness?
Is it good or bad to employ skepticism?
Is it good or bad to employ honesty?
If you dislike or disagree with any of these items, then you should provide reasons and examples to counter them. If, on the other hand, you agree/like them and still mark this (and Edited by RAZD, : fixed quote for logical fallaciesby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi AZPaul3
Again by comparison, the Age of Enlightenment curbed the absolute power of the church and the monarchy. It did not do away with either but greatly lessened their power to dictate policy in all spheres. Other voices, other ideas, gained a greater influence in government and in society. And this change had a significant effect on humanity around the world. Not total absolute change but enough that we today look back on those times as having an enormous affect on humanity's path into the future. The new Age of Reason has begun. It will not in the next 150 years supplant all irrational thoughts and practices in government and society. It most certainly will not magically make all humans rational logical thinkers. But it will lessen these effects as other more rational voices are given room and rise to be heard. Age of Enlightenment - Wikipedia
quote: We also have: The Age of Reason - Wikipedia
quote: The age of reason, imho, is still under development, but it has already resulted in various social innovations, from science to politics (democracy).
The new Age of Reason has begun. It will not in the next 150 years supplant all irrational thoughts and practices in government and society. It most certainly will not magically make all humans rational logical thinkers. But it will lessen these effects as other more rational voices are given room and rise to be heard. Frankly, I think this new Age of Reason is inevitable. If we do not kill or poison ourselves first, this now, this today, is the time future historians will look upon as another great era for the significant change in humanity's path that is being taken. The progress is slow, and there are (inevitably?) some back-slides. Personally I think we should push-back against anti-science fundamentalists and vocally support better education of science and philosophy (especially including logic and open-minded skepticism). And I don't think we need to necessarily be anti-theistic to do this. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi hooah212002
Except for the fact that most of the "anti-science" crowd are openly theistic AND use that theism as the basis for their anti-science stance (at least in the US anyways). So it almost comes as defaulting to being anti-theist as well, IMO. What other reason do people have for being anti-science if not for the conflict with their belief? Except that there are large numbers of theists that are NOT anti-science. In fact most scientists are religious. The clergy list is an example of clergy that endorse evolution specifically. Your equating of anti-science with theism and then claiming that all theists are therefore antiscience is false. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Panda, thanks.
Ok - I'll address this false dichotomy first. Oh - you are using a logical fallacy! (Are logical fallacies good or bad?) Except that you have not shown it to be a false dichotomy ... however I get your point. We can also add a neutral position if you want, and the question then becomes Is it good, neutral or bad to employ openmindedness?
Is that an improvement? Does that change your answer?
Ok - my true answer is: "It depends - different situations require different amounts of open-mindedness". But this still amount to being open-minded. The numbers 1, 10 and 1,000 are positive in different amounts but all are positive.
As an example (which someone else referred to previously): I received an email from a stranger. They told me about the death of their wife. They needed my help. All I have to do is send them 100. You think that I should be "open to the possibilities that are not contradicted by objective empirical evidence", yes?Well, I have no reason to not believe him - I do not know anything about him. I do know about other emails from different people claiming similar things.But to use those other emails as evidence against this new email would be closed-minded pseudo-scepticism. To follow your structure:Is it good or bad to employ open-mindedness? If I think it is bad, I should not send him any money. If I think it is good, then I should send him the 100. I know what I would do.What would you do, RADZ? I would be open-minded to the possibility that it was true. That does not mean that I must send them the 100, just that I consider the possibility that it is true. Remember that the open-mindedness under discussion here is qualified by the "... meaning we can be open to the possibilities that are not contradicted by objective empirical evidence ...." not that we are all-out gullible.
Well, I have no reason to not believe him - I do not know anything about him. I do know about other emails from different people claiming similar things. So you do have a reason not to believe him, you have grounds for suspicions and for being skeptical. Excellent. This shows that open-minded skepticism is better than open-mindedness alone (which leads to gullibility, the point of your example). And I would also employ skepticism, as you indicated in the above:
I do know about other emails from different people claiming similar things. But to use those other emails as evidence against this new email would be closed-minded pseudo-scepticism. No, that would be using evidence to base your skepticism. You could then investigate further to see if this request shows up on information police have about frauds and hoaxes (collect more evidence) before making a decision on the matter. If you claimed that it most likely was a fraud without having any such supporting evidence then that would be pseudoskepticism. You then make up your mind, based on your world view whether or not to send the money. You may even consider it true and still not send any money. The original message referred to open-minded skepticism in combination, using one to temper the other. IMHO unbridled openmindedness = gullibility = bad, which is why I limited it tomeaning we can be open to the possibilities that are not contradicted by objective empirical evidence ...." Likewise unbridled skepticism = closemindedness = bad, which is why I limited it to things "not (or insufficiently) supported by evidence". Personally, I think you need both for a balanced approach - do you agree?
But you are not allowing me to answer honestly. (Is honesty good or bad?) Are you not answering honestly? How am I restricting you from being honest? Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : clrty Edited by RAZD, : add/clrtyby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi
I NEVER said ALL THEISTS were anti-science. What I said was: Which is quite different from saying "all theists are anti-science". What you ALSO said was:
Message 89: So it almost comes as defaulting to being anti-theist as well, IMO. What other reason do people have for being anti-science if not for the conflict with their belief? You are basing your need for a new age of reason "defaulting to being anti-theist as well," on the anti-science crowd while ignoring the vast number of non-anti-science theists. Do you agree that most scientists are theists? Do you agree that the clergy list displays a pro-science stand on evolution by hundreds (thousands? I haven't checked the numbers recently) of clergy? Do you agree that these theists are not anti-science? Do you agree that non-anti-theists are not a problem for a new age of reason? Do you agree that anti-science theists do not account for the majority of theists? Do you agree that being anti-science is a problem and not theism per se? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi again, hooah212002
Funnily enough, I don't give a rats ass about non-anti-science theists which is why I've not mentioned them. So whether or not their existence supports or invalidates your opinion is irrelevant? Isn't this being rather close-minded?
Do you agree that most scientists are theists? No. Sadly, you appear to be wrong. Opinions can be like that. Scientists' Belief in God Varies Starkly by Discipline | Live Science
quote: There have been other similar studies with similar results. While the proportion of atheists or non-believers is higher than in the general population, they are still the minority. There is also a difference in the kinds of religions, with a strong tendency against fundamentalist or radical beliefs.
Well sure. But they aren't part of the anti-science crowd, are they? ... Curiously that is the point I am making.
Do you agree that these theists are not anti-science? Obviously. Thank you.
... So do they speak for all catholics? Are you saying that since high ranking individuals in the catholic church accept evolution as a valid conclusion then all catholics do so as well? The clergy list includes other faiths as well. What they speak for is how science is dealt with inside their jurisdictions, how people are advised by them.
Do you agree that anti-science theists do not account for the majority of theists? No. Again, this opinion does not appear to be supported by evidence. On the issue of evolution it appears to be split about 50:50 in the US: Religious Differences on the Question of Evolution | Pew Research Center
quote: With the evangelical protestants (the most vocal group) in the minority. This does not represent the views on science overall, but rather represents the worst case on a particular science.
No. What you have is a sect of people who are theists, using their theism as the reason for their stance on "anti-science". Their theism is the unifying factor. We can deduce from that that it is the theism that is the problem.... No you cannot deduce that, or ALL theists would be anti-science, which is demonstrated false by the information above. What you can do is focus on specific sects rather than theism as a whole. For instance within the "evangelical protestants" 3 out of 4 are anti-evolution, while among "unaffiliated theists" it is only 1 out of 4.
... Or their lack of education. But I am sure a number of them have college degrees. That is certainly a possibility. Being close-minded is another. This can result in a cult of ignorance promoted by some sects, but it doesn't mean that a member of one of these sects necessarily is anti-science. You are correct, some do have degrees, and some degrees are from good colleges rather than diploma mills or religious institutions that misrepresent science. These theists tend to be less anti-science than the less educated sect members of these particular religions. There IS a correlation between higher education and less radical\fundamentalist religious beliefs. So this is generally fixed by providing proper education, not by being anti-theistic per se. abe I think you would also find that those who are anti-science are also poorly cognizant regarding other areas of thought, like economics (treacle down theory) or practical politics (ie Tea Party folk). That, however, is my opinion. Non Sequitur Andrews McMeel Syndication - Home
Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : abe Edited by RAZD, : No reason given. Edited by RAZD, : sect specificby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Well hooah212002, it's not a matter of what you give a hoot about as it is about clarity of thought.
Apparently, we are talking past one another since I don't give a hoot about those theists that do happen to accept science. OR scientists who believe in god. They aren't exactly a hinderance on "the age of reason", are they? Which is why they should not be lumped into the anti-theist crowd by non-specific terminology.
It....doesn't. my opinion that their theism is the rason for their....stupidity.....is just as relavant, whether or not there are theists who accept science. It is the anti-science group that is anti-science.
That's all well and good, RAZD. However, my point was that the anti-science crowd is also (almost entirely) theist, using their theism as the basis for their anti-science stance. Curiously, while you've done well to provide evidence that "yes, there are theists that do endorse science", you've NOT provided an anti-science group that takes that stance for any reason NOT theistic. That's not the point. The issue is those who are in the anti-science (A) group rather than those that are included in the general theist (B) group:
If you say {theist} when you really mean {anti-science} then you are not being clear in what you are saying. Even if you said {evangelical protestant} when you meant {anti-science} you would be wrong about the 25% that endorse evolution. Clarity of thought and communication would be an element that I would promote as critical to a new age of reason, wouldn't you? Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : groupingby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Panda, insults, sniping comments and the like omitted:
You are adding another option? So there was at least 1 missing option? You made a comment, so I proposed an adaptation - is there something wrong with that?
It was therefore a false dichotomy to say there were only 2 options. Did I say that there were only two options? I asked if these concepts were good or bad to include in the ushering in of a new age of reason. I listed two possible options and then stated what I thought were the consequence of {good} and {bad}, that doesn't limit you to those options.
Barely. It is now a false trichotomy. Is it? You've not made a case for it, only criticized without substantiation or without offering a better approach. Making sniping comments is not constructive.
Can you be 1/2 stupid? No. But you can be slightly stupid or moderately stupid or very stupid. But all are on the stupid side of thinking. You can have positive numbers and negative numbers and 0. The positive numbers are all positive.
RADZ writes: By putting forward a false dichotomy and telling me to chose one option. Are you not answering honestly? How am I restricting you from being honest? And yet, curiously, here you are answering, still unconstrained in your answers.
I would be open-minded to the possibility that it was true. That does not mean that I must send them the 100, just that I consider the possibility that it is true. Remember that the open-mindedness under discussion here is qualified by the "... meaning we can be open to the possibilities that are not contradicted by objective empirical evidence ...." not that we are all-out gullible. But his email is not contradicted by any objective empirical evidence.Why would you not send him 100? Because he hasn't made the case (supported with empirical evidence) that his claim is true. I would need further information before I could begin to decide to send money. But even if he could show that it was true that doesn't mean that I would send money -- I can just as easily need to spend that money on other things of more importance to me.
RADZ writes: But there is no evidence that his email is fraudulent. So you do have a reason not to believe him, you have grounds for suspicions and for being skeptical. Excellent. This shows that open-minded skepticism is better than open-mindedness alone (which leads to gullibility, the point of your example).Why would you not send him 100? Because he hasn't made the case (supported with empirical evidence) that his claim is true. I would need further information before I could begin to decide to send money. But even if he could show that it was true that doesn't mean that I would send money -- I can just as easily need to spend that money on other things of more importance to me.
RADZ writes: But there is no evidence that his email is fraudulent. Why are you investigating him? You could then investigate further to see if this request shows up on information police have about frauds and hoaxes (collect more evidence) before making a decision on the matter.Why would you not send him 100? Because he hasn't made the case (supported with empirical evidence) that his claim is true. I would need further information before I could begin to decide to send money. But even if he could show that it was true that doesn't mean that I would send money -- I can just as easily need to spend that money on other things of more importance to me. Certainly, IF I were about to spend 100 on anything, I would investigate the investment to make sure it was real, as I'm not in the habit of just throwing money away based on unsubstantiated claims. Being open-minded to the possibilities does not mean being gullible. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : ...by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Don't have a cow, hooah212002
You are not understanding my position.
THEIR THEISM IS THE REASON FOR THEIR STANCE ON BEING ANTI-SCIENCE. ... But 1/4th of evangelical protestants are not anti-evolutionists, as just one example from the chart provided above (there are similar people in all other beliefs listed). Therefore their theism is not making them be anti-science.
... THUS THE REASON I SEE THE THEISM AS THE PROBLEM There you go, blaming {general blanket} theism again, rather than the specific anti-science beliefs (such as young earth, wwf, etc beliefs). It's like you said that my theism makes me anti-science. It's like you said that a pro-evolution evangelical protestant's theism makes them anti-science. Neither of these is true. Neither of these is a valid statement. You cannot logically use as broad a brush as this and even begin to hope to start using clarity of thought.
theism per se ≠ anti-science Why are you putting words in my mouth? Maybe larger font will help? Yes. Perhaps you could start by not putting words in my mouth? Perhaps you don't see what your words are saying. Theism - Wikipedia
quote: Nothing there about anti-science beliefs. Perhaps you could try using a different word to describe the {anti-science group}, and see if that clears up the issue. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Panda,
RADZ writes:
Excellent. Because he hasn't made the case (supported with empirical evidence) that his claim is true. I would need further information before I could begin to decide to send money.I got what I needed. Thanks! Yes, there is insufficient evidence pro or con, and there is no great need to reach a decision:
question | is there sufficient valid information available to decide | | yes no | | decide based is a on empirical decision valid evidence necessary? (A) / \ yes no ... but ... / | | decide why make a based on decide decision inadequate at this anyway evidence time? based on =guess =wait =opinion (B) (C) (D) We don't have an (A) or (B) condition, so the logical position is (C).
RADZ writes:
And why do I need to offer a better approach? You've not made a case for it, only criticized without substantiation or without offering a better approach.It is your faulty logic. It is not my job to fix it. Because THAT is pseudoskepticism: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Pseudoskepticism
quote: Because if you don't substantiate your claim then you are just giving your opinion. and Pseudoskepticism - Wikipedia
quote: Because if you don't have any suggestions to improve on this, then your comments are relatively unimportant, because you are then just giving an opinion, rather than criticism that leads to the advancement of a means to usher in a new age of reason. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : dBCodeby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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