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Author Topic:   Ushering In An Age of Reason....Or Not.....?
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 53 of 187 (630510)
08-25-2011 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by GDR
08-25-2011 9:37 PM


Re: Bluejay and AZPaul3
GDR writes:
I need some theistic support around here.
I think you are doing a fantastic job at discussing your side of things.
Unfortunately I am not really on your side of the fence, as it were, but I enjoy reading your posts nevertheless.
Keep up the good work!
Don't give Straggler an easy time of it!

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by GDR, posted 08-25-2011 9:37 PM GDR has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 90 of 187 (631524)
09-01-2011 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by RAZD
09-01-2011 1:43 PM


Re: or Ushering In A New Age of Reason....?
Ok - I'll address this false dichotomy first.
Oh - you are using a logical fallacy! (Are logical fallacies good or bad?)
RADZ writes:
Is it good or bad to employ openmindedness?
Ok - my true answer is: "It depends - different situations require different amounts of open-mindedness".
But you are not allowing me to answer honestly. (Is honesty good or bad?)
As an example (which someone else referred to previously):
I received an email from a stranger. They told me about the death of their wife. They needed my help.
All I have to do is send them 100.
You think that I should be "open to the possibilities that are not contradicted by objective empirical evidence", yes?
Well, I have no reason to not believe him - I do not know anything about him.
I do know about other emails from different people claiming similar things.
But to use those other emails as evidence against this new email would be closed-minded pseudo-scepticism.
To follow your structure:
Is it good or bad to employ open-mindedness?
If I think it is bad, I should not send him any money.
If I think it is good, then I should send him the 100.
I know what I would do.
What would you do, RADZ?

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2011 1:43 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2011 5:36 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 95 of 187 (631547)
09-01-2011 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by RAZD
09-01-2011 5:36 PM


Re: or Ushering In A New Age of Reason....?
RADZ writes:
Except that you have not shown it to be a false dichotomy ... however I get your point. We can also add a neutral position if you want,
You are adding another option?
So there was at least 1 missing option?
It was therefore a false dichotomy to say there were only 2 options.
(So - you are playing dumb?)
RADZ writes:
Are you not answering honestly? How am I restricting you from being honest?
By putting forward a false dichotomy and telling me to chose one option.
(Your replies are becoming more disingenuous.)
RADZ writes:
We can also add a neutral position if you want...
Is that an improvement?
Barely. It is now a false trichotomy.
(What is ironic is that your whole post is based around a logical fallacy.)
RADZ writes:
Can you be 1/2 open minded?
Can you be 1/2 stupid? No.
But you can be slightly stupid or moderately stupid or very stupid.
(You are being disingenuous again. Perhaps you should try pretending to be knowledgeable instead.)
I would be open-minded to the possibility that it was true. That does not mean that I must send them the 100, just that I consider the possibility that it is true. Remember that the open-mindedness under discussion here is qualified by the "... meaning we can be open to the possibilities that are not contradicted by objective empirical evidence ...." not that we are all-out gullible.
But his email is not contradicted by any objective empirical evidence.
Why would you not send him 100?
RADZ writes:
So you do have a reason not to believe him, you have grounds for suspicions and for being skeptical. Excellent. This shows that open-minded skepticism is better than open-mindedness alone (which leads to gullibility, the point of your example).
But there is no evidence that his email is fraudulent.
Why would you not send him 100?
RADZ writes:
You could then investigate further to see if this request shows up on information police have about frauds and hoaxes (collect more evidence) before making a decision on the matter.
But there is no evidence that his email is fraudulent. Why are you investigating him?
Why would you not send him 100?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2011 5:36 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2011 8:48 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 102 of 187 (631595)
09-01-2011 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by RAZD
09-01-2011 8:48 PM


Re: or Ushering In A New Age of Reason....?
RAZD writes:
You made a comment, so I proposed an adaptation - is there something wrong with that?
Yes. The change you made did not stop it being fallacious.
RADZ writes:
Did I say that there were only two options? I asked if these concepts were good or bad to include in the ushering in of a new age of reason.
Yup. Those were the only two options you allowed.
RADZ writes:
I listed two possible options and then stated what I thought were the consequence of {good} and {bad}, that doesn't limit you to those options.
Ah...so your 'test' is only applicable to people who are either 100% in the {good} direction or 100% in the {bad} direction.
Gotcha. *nods*
RADZ writes:
But all are on the stupid side of thinking. You can have positive numbers and negative numbers and 0. The positive numbers are all positive.
Maybe that made sense when your were first thinking it.
RADZ writes:
Is it?
Yes. It is.
RADZ writes:
You've not made a case for it, only criticized without substantiation or without offering a better approach.
And why do I need to offer a better approach?
It is your faulty logic. It is not my job to fix it.
RADZ writes:
Because he hasn't made the case (supported with empirical evidence) that his claim is true. I would need further information before I could begin to decide to send money.
Excellent.
I got what I needed.
Thanks!

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2011 8:48 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2011 9:59 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 142 of 187 (632041)
09-05-2011 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by bluegenes
09-05-2011 11:51 AM


Re: Science is Pseudoskeptical and Illogical
bluegenes writes:
Here are Truzzi's main points about the approach that he wanted to call pseudoskepticism:
I particularly liked 8:
quote:
Suggesting that unconvincing evidence is grounds for completely dismissing a claim.
bluegenes writes:
The site's bull, and you should have checked it and spotted this.
I was surprised that Chuck77's support had not set off alarm bells in RADZ's head.
But it seems that RADZ has actually turned to the dark side...

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by bluegenes, posted 09-05-2011 11:51 AM bluegenes has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 182 of 187 (632865)
09-10-2011 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by GDR
09-10-2011 6:59 PM


Just a side note:
GDR writes:
Like C S Lewis says:
quote:
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.
Which is paraphrasing Pascal's Wager, yes?
Islam, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance.
Hinduism, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance.
Judaism, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance.
It doesn't help much as it applies to any religion which describes a 'consequence' to our lives.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by GDR, posted 09-10-2011 6:59 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by GDR, posted 09-10-2011 8:32 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
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