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Author | Topic: "If I descended from an ape, how come apes are still here?" | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Wounded King Member (Idle past 290 days) Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined:
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As I said before the only clear differences I can see from the pictures are in the teeth, and it wouldn't surprise me if that was principally a matter of wear on the skull prior to fossilisation. It looks like a lot of the bone surrounding the roots of the teeth has been eroded away making them look much bigger.
According to the paper on D2700 the skull has suffered some damage which may account for some of the differences Al is seeing (Vekua et al., 2002) ...
Vekua et al. writes:
The damage to the maxilla is what I was describing as wear. There is actually a side view in the paper which makes the degree of erosion around the teeth much clearer, you can easily appreciate that a large amount of the tooth roots are exposed (That image can be found here). The maxillae are slightly damaged anteriorly, the zygomatic arches are broken, and both mastoid processes are heavily abraded. There is damage also to the orbital walls and to the elements of the interorbital region and the nasal cavity. The condyles are missing from the mandible. To emphasise Coyote's point about multivariate analysis here are some of the measurement's the authors use to compare their new find to previously discovered specimens ...
WK Edited by Wounded King, : No reason given.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 1058 days) Posts: 389 Joined:
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Coyote writes: Are you ignoring me deliberately? Yes, I am ignoring you deliberately.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.6
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Big Al writes: Yes, I am ignoring you deliberately. I suspect that not looking under the bed won't help you with your worry that there might be something under there. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1663 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Big_Al35
Yes, I am ignoring you deliberately. Curiously, Coyote is probably the best person on this thread to discuss fossils and the comparisons of shared (synapomorphies) and derived (apomorphies) features and how they are used to categorize fossils in a scientific process, rather than just looking at pictures. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Panda Member (Idle past 3971 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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RAZD writes:
Since Big_Al32 is determined to remain completely ignorant, Coyote is actually the worst person in this thread. Coyote is probably the best person on this thread... It is best for Big_Al32 if he avoids talking to anyone who is fully educated in the sphere of knowledge that Big_Al32 wants to remain wrong about. We all have a brain, but some creationists are convinced that it is best used as a paperweight.Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!
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Perdition Member (Idle past 3496 days) Posts: 1593 From: Wisconsin Joined: |
We all have a brain, but some creationists are convinced that it is best used as a paperweight. Everyone knows the brain is used for heat regulation, nothing else.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2364 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Coyote writes: Are you ignoring me deliberately? Yes, I am ignoring you deliberately. I have posted politely, presented solid evidence concerning the topic, and have firsthand experience with fossil man and the statistical treatments used to analyze the various skulls, and those are the posts you choose to ignore? I would be interested in your reasons for ignoring my posts.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1512 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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You've heard the phrase, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing?" Big Al is playing it as safe as possible and avoiding all knowledge.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2750 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
It's not me Alright, I see that a lot of people have been trying a lot of different tactics. I'm not going to go back an read all 250 posts to see what's been posted. Clearly you are not convinced. I'll simply ask you two questions: #1) What do you feel is the best explanation for the fossils that exist?#2) What would you expect/need to see to be convinced that fossils represent changes over time from one set of features to a different set of features? Can you answer these two questions honestly?
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 1058 days) Posts: 389 Joined:
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Nuggin writes: I'll simply ask you two questions: #1) What do you feel is the best explanation for the fossils that exist?#2) What would you expect/need to see to be convinced that fossils represent changes over time from one set of features to a different set of features? My concern is that you appear to have only one explanation for how these fossils might have come about. Issues such as the effects of weathering, diet change, environmental factors, and medicine seem to be completely ignored. I am not even convinced by your dating arguments. And yes I am being honest! Edited by Big_Al35, : No reason given.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1512 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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My concern is that you appear to have only one explanation for how these fossils might have come about. Issues such as the effects of weathering, diet change, environmental factors, and medicine seem to be completely ignored. Do you have any evidence that actual paleontologists are ignoring these things, or is this just your latest straw to grasp at in an attempt to not face known facts?Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Issues such as the effects of weathering, diet change, environmental factors, and medicine seem to be completely ignored. Says the guy who is deliberately ignoring the archeologist
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.1
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BigA writes: Nuggin writes: I'll simply ask you two questions: #1) What do you feel is the best explanation for the fossils that exist?#2) What would you expect/need to see to be convinced that fossils represent changes over time from one set of features to a different set of features? My concern is that you appear to have only one explanation for how these fossils might have come about. Issues such as the effects of weathering, diet change, environmental factors, and medicine seem to be completely ignored. I am not even convinced by your dating arguments. And yes I am being honest! Why didn't you answer the questions?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1663 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi Big_Al35
... Issues such as the effects of weathering, diet change, environmental factors, and medicine seem to be completely ignored. ... Curiously, diet change and environmental factors are what drive evolutionary changes over many generations, but these changes are slow. Weathering could account for erosion of bones in various areas, but it doesn't rebuild bone inside what is worn away, and this is why some teeth look longer than others, but this does not change the overall dimensions of the teeth. And medicine cannot alter skulls in a way that.
... I am not even convinced by your dating arguments. ... Then let's discuss age dating methods. We can start with Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 And when you work your way all the way through the correlations, then we can get back to this. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2750 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined:
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Issues such as the effects of weathering, diet change, environmental factors, and medicine seem to be completely ignored. Is it possible that issues which you think "seem to be completely ignored" are actually issues about which you have not researched? Have you bothered to look up what paleontologists have studies in regards to weather on fossils? Or about the effects of the various kinds of earth where they are found? As for "diet change" and "medicine", I fail to understand exactly what your objection is? Are you saying that paleontologists haven't studied T-Rex fossils to determine which medicines they were or were not taking? On that you've got us. We also haven't studied to see if they liked Cheers episodes with or without Diane. At a certain point, you restrict the research to only those things which are plausible.
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