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Author Topic:   Laws in the US that restrict the rights of Christians
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 84 (422114)
09-15-2007 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lithodid-Man
09-14-2007 8:39 PM


People forget
To keep this thread from going OT or into a discussion of morality, I want to exclude laws that allow things that Christians are opposed too. For example, a law which legalizes same-sex marriage would be off topic UNLESS that law forced same-sex marriage to those opposed to it. I also want to avoid vague anecdotal claims like the War on Christmas. Nearly every state and federal law in this country can be referenced online, so it would be instructive to provide links so that we can all research the specific statutes.
Many people seem to forget that Christian brethren exist all over the world, not just in America. And their trials and tribulations make American christians pale in comparison.
My wife and I once were corresponding to various prisoners in China via this website. We were using Babelfish as a translator to inspire hope in their affliction. Of course, we never received word back which is arguably evidence of suppression.
America, on the other hand, has started out as a predominantly Christian nation. As a result, they have enjoyed a long lasting prosperity. Those lines are clearly closing, however, as we see more and more people expressing a genuine loathing of all things Christian. I echo Jesus on this one: "Such things must come to pass, but woe to whom they come by."

"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lithodid-Man, posted 09-14-2007 8:39 PM Lithodid-Man has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 09-15-2007 9:38 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 18 by nator, posted 09-15-2007 9:47 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 84 (422530)
09-17-2007 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
09-15-2007 9:38 PM


Re: People forget
Absolutely irrelevant.
Fair enough.
Do you have examples of any others or do you intend to continue to try to palm the pea and change the subject in the vain hope that no one notices?
Why would I have opted to "palm the pea" {please get another catch phrase) instead of just not answering at all?
To answer your question, there are no laws that specifically target Christians or any other group outright. At most, the complaint is a misinterpretation of current laws-- such as, the Establishment Clause.
The EC seems pretty straightforward to me, but for some reason, this has been taken to an extreme.
There are no laws, that I am aware of, that are clear cut cases outright bias and discrimination against Christians. Therefore, I'm not sure there will be a lot of play on this thread.

"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 09-15-2007 9:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by RAZD, posted 09-17-2007 4:54 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 27 by jar, posted 09-17-2007 5:12 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 84 (422664)
09-17-2007 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by RAZD
09-17-2007 4:54 PM


Re: bias, oppression and discrimination
quote:
There are no laws, that I am aware of, that are clear cut cases outright bias and discrimination against Christians. Therefore, I'm not sure there will be a lot of play on this thread.
Kind of cuts into the argument about bias, oppression and discrimination though doesn't it? Kind of cuts it to shreds eh?
Not in my estimation, because bias can still exist without specific laws being forwarded by Congress. For instance, the Constitution was explicit that all human beings had certain unalienable rights. "But how on earth will we be able to justify slavery then?" Eh, we'll just say they aren't actually people. Eventually a law passed stating that negro's were only 2/3 human.
Could it be that what you want is an interpretation that favors christianity above other beliefs, which can then be used as a basis for laws that show bias, oppression and discrimination against other religions and beliefs?
The EC is very straightforward. Basically, the fledgling US nation said we don't want dictators imposing a state sanctioned religion, nor do we want dictators suppressing people from expressing their religious beliefs. So they erected an imaginary law.
Somehow this turned in to a one-sided debate where only the protection of the state is highly regarded.
It is not an extreme interpretation if it protects the rest of us from your - still currently - illegal desires to impose christian bias, oppression and discrimination on others.
See, that's absurd. You are trying to make it so that Judeo-Christian ethics can't be regarded in a secular setting. Somehow the reverse doesn't work, as people want to impose taxes on churches.
This is usually interpreted from a false belief that at one time christianity did have a favored position in the government of this country from which to impose christian bias, oppression and discrimination, but in fact this does not and never did exist.
This country has always been characterized as a Christian nation with a strong understanding that allowing its citizens to choose freely its religious affiliations is the best way to run a society. They fled from religious persecution. The last thing they wanted was to force others, via the law, for people to conform to their brand of religiosity.

"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by RAZD, posted 09-17-2007 4:54 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 09-17-2007 10:34 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 30 by RAZD, posted 09-17-2007 10:43 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 31 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-17-2007 10:53 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 35 by Rrhain, posted 09-18-2007 1:54 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 38 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-19-2007 9:40 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 84 (422705)
09-18-2007 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
09-17-2007 5:12 PM


Re: Laws that target groups directly
The Defense of Marriage Act directly targets groups as do any sodomy laws.
Listen to the name of the act-- the Defense of Marriage Act. The only one imposing their morality on anyone, as it were, seems to be the opposing side. At most, people are abrogating the proposal. Since marriage has always been defined as between a man and a woman, the imposition is all on the other side of the table-- and as if it were Christianity making up these rules. This has been the way it is since the dawn of mankind. You can't very well implicate Christians as the sole proprietor.
And Christians try constantly to have other oppressive laws passed to deny human rights to groups they disapprove of.
Since you claim to be a Christian, do you implicate yourself?

"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 09-17-2007 5:12 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 09-18-2007 1:06 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 34 by Rrhain, posted 09-18-2007 1:26 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 36 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2007 2:09 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 37 by RAZD, posted 09-19-2007 9:10 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 40 by Coragyps, posted 09-20-2007 9:24 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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