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Author Topic:   Whether to leave this forum or not
Member (Idle past 493 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006

Message 301 of 307 (659440)
04-15-2012 11:08 PM

A creo stops by, finds he cannot compete in a genuine evidence-based argument and gets pissy about it. He has a pity party and storms out of the room in a melodramatic temper tantrum with vague threats of never returning which he promptly forgets about. He then charges back in, hurling insults at everything and everyone in a display of projection seldom seen outside of a 24 screen multiplex.

Rational people calmly try to get him to step back from the ledge because we need a few creos here, at least for the entertainment value if nothing else. A couple of creo cheerleaders jump in to buck up the spirits of our hero, with some apparent success.

Will he stay or will he leave for good? If he does stay, how long will it be before the next string of "fuck you"s pour forth as if from the fountains of the deep? Can man survive on congnitive dissonance alone? These questions and more will be answered on the next episode of How the Stomach Turns.

BTW, I don't hate you. How can I hate anyone who provides as much comic relief as you do?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

Posts: 5972
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.3

Message 302 of 307 (659441)
04-15-2012 11:14 PM

My "summary"
I wish foreveryoung the best. I hope he stays around. But I also hope that he learns to better manage his post and to pace himself a little better.

Defending your ideas in debate can be a good experience. You learn the weak points of your argument. You perhaps learn how to better present your position so that others won't misunderstand it. However, piling on can be frustrating, and pacing oneself is one way of dealing with it.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

Member (Idle past 1345 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008

Message 303 of 307 (659445)
04-15-2012 11:46 PM

I too wish foreveryoung the best. I wish all posters here the best.

But this is a debate site, and there are people here with contrasting viewpoints.

Particularly on the Science Forum side, those viewpoints are expected to be supported by some kind of evidence.

This is in sharp contrast to religious beliefs, which rely on scripture, dogma, belief, and the like.

If the tens of thousands of world religions, sects, denominations, etc. approached their beliefs as science does, they would use evidence to determine which are correct and which are incorrect. Those shown to be incorrect would be discarded. However, we all know that this is not the way religions approach matters.

I think foreveryoung was at least partially unaware of how science approaches the world. Science operates by challenging everything and by requiring evidence for any and all claims.

Speaking for myself, and probably for most or all here, I don't hate creationists. I find it educational to test my ideas against theirs; if my ideas can't stand the test of evidence they are of little use to me.

So I would encourage foreveryoung not to leave this site, but to gather evidence in support of his position and present it to us.

If he can defend it we learn something. If not, perhaps he learns something.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Posts: 5075
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7

Message 304 of 307 (659540)
04-16-2012 2:42 PM

A classic scene from The Bob Newhart Show (the first one, where he played a psychologist) might help foreveryoung to better understand the situation and his problem. Bob is with a patient, a surly middle-aged black man:
Patient (keeps insisting bitterly): Everybody hates me because I'm black!
Bob: Uh, no. Everybody hates you because you're a very unpleasant person to be around.
Patient (having a break-through): Oh!

foreveryoung constantly complains that everybody hates him because he's a creationist. No, if anybody does hate him, then it's because he is a very unpleasant person to be around.

foreveryoung started this topic as a snivelling spoiled child and ended it with a full-blown temper tantrum. Oh, sure, he tried to wipe his nose and appear to have started behaving himself, but he is continuing his temper tantrum via PMs. In that, he demonstrates that he has learned to practice hypocrisy.

In Message 263, he stated:

I am not going to address any post of yours after you call me a raving lunatic. Sorry. No dice.

Now of course, I read that as it was written, that since I had described him as a raving lunatic then he was not ever going to reply to any post of mine. So when he shortly thereafter replied to my reply to that, I made the off-hand comment that he had broken his promise.

Well, that touched off his powder-keg again. He replied with Message 300 at 15-Apr-2012 7:45 PM PDT. Of course, we don't know what he had written at that time, because he then edited it, no reason given, at 7:46. In the latter version, he stated that he had not meant that statement as I had interpreted it and even expressed sorrow over the misunderstanding. Sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

But then two minutes later, at 15-Apr-2012 7:48 PM PDT, he sent me this PM:

foreveryoung writes:

Are you fucking serious? You totally misunderstood me. I was talking about not responding to the post you wanted me to if you were going to go around calling me a lunatic. I will respond to a post if I fucking feel like it. You missed my point. I am not going to respond to you per your request if you act like a jerk.

Still up to the same old nasty temper tantrums, while hypocritically trying to appear reasonable to everybody else. And I am sure that I am not the only one to continue to receive such PMs from him.

I'm CC'ing my reply to him to Admin with a request for instructions on how to block any and all future PMs from foreveryoung. This is the very first time in my entire life that I am blocking anybody, but this nasty brat is thoroughly deserving of that distinction.

foreveryoung is a spoiled child given to violent temper tantrums. He wants to sit at the adult table and be treated as an adult while at the same time want everybody to accept his temper tantrums. Sorry, foreveryoung (or "foreverpuerile"), but in order to sit at the adult table, you need to behave yourself accordingly, which you not only refuse to do, but you even insist that everybody tolerate your temper tantrums. That is not going to happen; nobody likes being around an ill-tempered brat throwing a fit, not even his own parents.

Based on his persistent misconduct, I vote that foreveryoung go ahead and leave for now, returning after he has finally learned some big-boy manners. He needs to grow up and especially to out-grow his temper tantrums. He needs to learn that self-esteem comes from within and is not gained by the approval of others. He needs to learn how to behave among adults and how to engage in discourse with adults. Only then can he be welcomed at the adult table.

Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3467 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008

Message 305 of 307 (659560)
04-16-2012 5:26 PM

this guy rules
The go fuck yourself page was the best.

I type that out at least once a day here (then erase it and type something else, or just don't post it).

Clayton Bigsby writes:

If you got hate in your heart let it out

Member (Idle past 2944 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004

Message 306 of 307 (659566)
04-16-2012 8:19 PM

How on earth do I sum up this thread?

It started with foreveryoung's post where he felt that he was despised. No amount of explaining that it wasn't personal has convinced him otherwise and I don't know if it ever will. I know I don't despise him for his views or hate him for his opinions, but how do I convince him of this?

I think that there has been confusion in his mind over his position being despised and him being despised. I'd even go so far as to say that "despised" isn't really the right word, neither is "hated" - "held in contempt" may be more accurate.

I'm going to use this post to summarise for foreveryoung where the contempt is directed. There are certain creationist and ID supporters and organisations which know what they are saying has been shown to be false, yet they continue to repeat their "facts". That is intentional lying. They can't tell the truth because it would show the intellectual and scientific bankruptcy of what they are teaching and that would be financial suicide.

Unfortunately, they are able to make their arguments sound logical enough that many believers are taken in. These believers, as dwise1 said, are being sent out to "fight the good fight" with bows and arrows against machine guns and RPGs and the people who are sending them out know this. It's an utter betrayal of their followers. Is it surprising that these dishonest organisations are held in contempt? Not only do they lie, but they let down those who put their trust in them. Their lies are also held in contempt because they are lies - not mistakes, LIES!!!

These organisations also give followers the false impression that opponents will not be able to withstand the onslaught when the truth is that the organisations themselves failed so they're sending out cannon-fodder in their place. This behaviour is held in contempt.

I don't know if foreveryoung will finally understand that the contempt is not directed at him, but at his arguments and those who supplied him with those arguments in the full knowledge that they were false.

foreveryoung is in the unfortunate position of having accepted that for the bible to be true Genesis must be true. That's a big stick used to keep adherents in line, representing that a denial of a literal Genesis is a denial of Christ. It presents the false dichotomy of believe Genesis or lose your faith and a loss of faith can be terrifying.

I wish foreveryoung only the best, whatever he decides to do. I would hope that he will understand that no-one hates or despises him.

Posts: 20766
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1

Message 307 of 307 (659574)
04-16-2012 10:01 PM

Closing Remarks
ForEverYoung, be assured that no one here hates or despises or even dislikes you. We just have very little respect for the ideas you're promoting because they are unsupported by evidence or science. I did follow Chuck's suggestion and went back to look at your early posts. He was right, they were very good. You should consider returning to that approach.

I'm sure I speak for all of us when I wish you all the best in your college career, and express the fond hope that you'll stay on here.


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