The moral implications of evolution, and their discontents.

Is your God not intelligent enough to create a universe with the intent and design that biological evolution would happen in it?If so, couldn't this be an example of a man making up a God in his own image, rather than the other way around?

While I agree with you that the theory of evolution, like other scientific theories, does not tell us how to behave morally or promote a particular philosophy, the fact of evolution and other factual knowledge about biology might influence philosophy (and some moral and social behaviour).

An interesting exercise for you might be to visit prisons and test those convicted of the crimes you mention on their understanding of the theory of evolution. I'd expect it to be very low, and non-existent in many cases.I think you'll find that levels of belief in God in South Africa are considerably higher than in some much less crime ridden societies, like Sweden, for example.You mention hi-jacking, strangely, as it seems, like suicide bombing, to be a popular passtime amongst the God fearing.Would it surprise you if the most religious country in the "west" was also the one with the highest murder rate? Not me.There seems to be a connection between high superstition rates and high levels of violent crime in societies.This fits the history of Christendom. Europe was a very violent place compared to modern standards when Christianity was at its height.Rates of religious disbelief within societies tend to go up amongst those with higher education levels. Crime rates go down with the same.Little, if anything, seems to back your view that superstition based morality is a good thing.

We're all products of evolution, LucyTheApe, although it sounds as though you're a bit of a throwback.In a few million years, your descendants might start understanding the process.

Shhh...those cloning experiments were meant to be secret, and not to be discussed even when on topic.

Why?Are black people, in your view, particularly unhealthy genetically?Or would they, in your view, for some reason, dislike the idea of being related to the other groups of the world?Perhaps you, for some reason, think that there's something wrong with having evolved to have a dark complexion, but if you were black, you wouldn't, would you?So why should someone black have any more problems stomaching the idea of evolution than anyone else?{ABE} As an afterthought, you obviously find evolution tough to swallow with your present skin colour, which seems to make your comment a statement of the obvious.Edited by bluegenes, : Afterthought.

Is the O.P. about the ToE, or about philosophical naturalism?Which part of the ToE says that a God did not create the universe?Can't your God be intelligent enough to create a universe in which things like abiogenesis and evolution would happen?

The universe, I said! Not life or the individual species directly. An interventionist God is excluded from the ToE. Your God may be excluded, but not all possible Gods. The ToE, being a scientific theory, can only include mechanisms for which there is evidence, like mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift. If evidence comes up for additional mechanisms, then they can be added. (That's what happened with genetic drift). There's no evidence to those who wear the blinkers of superstition. For those of us with our feet in reality, there's evidence, but we should discuss that on one of the "evidence" threads, not a morality one. I don't have a God. The genesis God is far from intelligent. If this universe was created, I think its extremely unlikely that its creator is a racist who particularly favours one middle-eastern tribe. I think the "chosen tribe" invented that God.Speaking of racists, this thread's about about whether the ToE has moral implications. My view is that scientific theories attempt to explain observed phenomena, but they don't tell us how to behave at all.Philosophies are something else. If you're like most of the creationists on EvC, you probably have trouble distinguishing between methodological naturalism and metaphysical naturalism.Here's a Christian who knows very well that evolution has happened on this planet on a grand scale. But this is scientist of real class, not an Answers in Genesis type fantasist.John Polkinghorne - WikipediaEdited by bluegenes, : typo

For "people" substitute "racist people" and you're correct. As you pointed out in an earlier post, they'll also use the Bible (and any other straw that they can clutch at to delude themselves that their group is in some way innately superior). However, that wouldn't make it harder for any group of humans to accept biological truths, which actually tell us that we're a very homogeneous species compared to others. And have you ever read Hitler's Bible based speeches? There's loads!!!! Evolutionary theory will tell you that Homo Sapiens is Homo Sapiens.Hitler comes out with the type of comments on biology that we hear from creationists. "A fox will always be a fox" for example. Have you listed these "scientific" things on the appropriate threads?

No he doesn't. At least, not in the post you're replying to.ABE{Perhaps you're referring to someone else who's quoted in that message} Edited by bluegenes, : clarification

Everyone? Perhaps you'd like to quote us all?get a grip.I often think of Moses when the word's mentioned, as he might be the earliest recorded advocate of it.

Not just Serbs and Albanians, when you get two groups laying into each other, they're usually from the same or closely related groups, not surprisingly, because they're in the same part of the world.
The Serbs and Albanians have cultural differences, primarily, religion.So, whether you're looking at the two groups in northern Ireland or the Israelis and Palestinians, the Hindu/Muslim divide in Kashmir, and many other examples in the present world, it's clear that "Us v. Them " human conflicts actually have nothing to do with race at all.When there's division and conflict between two groups who are perceived as being racially different, then people start talking about this thing called racism, forgetting that the groups actually have cultural differences that are the origins of their different outlooks and identities, just like those involved in disputes who are perceived to be of the same race.The Nazis certainly built up a race mythology about themselves and the Jews, but the essential differences were actually cultural, and the two groups had been kept apart for an astonishing 1700 years in that area of Europe by two religions. Without this form of cultural separation, they'd have been indistinguishable more than a thousand years ago.The underlying cause of this separate identity is rarely emphasized in history books. Religion, after all, is supposed to be a good thing, isn't it? Not the underlying cause of masses of killing.Far better if the blame could be pointed at something else, a much abused scientific theory, for example, then religious people can remain in their happy cocoon of self-delusion.