Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,889 Year: 4,146/9,624 Month: 1,017/974 Week: 344/286 Day: 65/40 Hour: 1/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Christmas Wars
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 138 (774065)
12-12-2015 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by AZPaul3
12-12-2015 5:04 PM


I don't watch Fox News very often, but so far the War on Christmas stuff has seemed very minimal to me. I simply haven't come across it at all. Wikipedia's Christmas controversy article discusses a single incident involving Starbucks for 2015. And, oh look who jumped into the battle!
quote:
Businessman and Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump supported Feuerstein's claim by suggesting a boycott of Starbucks, stating that "If I become president, we're all going to be saying 'Merry Christmas' again." Many social media users, including other Christians, have perceived the criticism to be an overreaction

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 12-12-2015 5:04 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by AZPaul3, posted 12-12-2015 6:34 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 138 (774158)
12-14-2015 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by New Cat's Eye
12-12-2015 1:53 PM


Woo-hoo, we're PC bro!
If the goal is to sell as much stuff as possible to customers, then why is using "Seasons Greetings" considered PC rather than just being commercially smart? A retailer should use whatever gets the most customers through the door.
Now, I can cite instances where that might not be happening. But generally speaking, using "Season Greetings" ought to be perfectly acceptable unless you've got a butt hurt reason for getting offended.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-12-2015 1:53 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by ringo, posted 12-14-2015 11:13 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 52 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-14-2015 8:18 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 138 (774218)
12-14-2015 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by ringo
12-14-2015 11:13 AM


I think that's the exact definition of Political Correctness - tailoring your words for what you can get out of it rather than saying what you mean.
PC is a slippery term, but I disagree with your definition. If your meaning were correct then all commercial speech would be PC and applying PC to such speech would be utterly without meaning.
Of course, retailers can offend people by saying "Merry Christmas" or by NOT saying "Merry Christmas" so they'd have to analyze the demographics pretty thoroughly to be politically correct.
I suspect that most people are completely satisfied with "Happy Holidays" type greetings.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by ringo, posted 12-14-2015 11:13 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by ringo, posted 12-15-2015 11:11 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 56 of 138 (774278)
12-15-2015 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by ringo
12-15-2015 11:11 AM


Yes, commercial speech is the same as political speech; it's all about selling a product.
Sure. All commercial speech is political, so every term we use to attract people is PC. Sorry but I cannot find much use for your definition.
What political correctness is not is what right-wing nuts think it is: expressing a belief in equality.
I can agree with that. In fact, I'd set the level even lower. Expressing a belief that others should be treated with human dignity is what right-wing nuts label as PC.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by ringo, posted 12-15-2015 11:11 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 12-16-2015 2:29 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 138 (774279)
12-15-2015 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by New Cat's Eye
12-14-2015 8:18 PM


I question him about it and he explains that it's Wal*Mart's national policy to replace "Merry Christmas" with "Season Greetings", because they're trying to avoid marginalizing other faiths or hurting their religious sensibilities, and I also believe that this is due to pandering to a national political agenda rather than from gathering demographic marketing data, then I would think that people could understand why I would consider that to be some PC bullshit.
About half of your statement about what the Walmart greeter does is actually about you. I agree that if you believe marginalizing other faiths is okay then you are going to label "Season Greetings" as PC. And you are going to do that without bothering to question the greeter.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-14-2015 8:18 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-16-2015 9:05 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 138 (774448)
12-17-2015 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by New Cat's Eye
12-16-2015 9:05 PM


Isn't the point about whether the other person is offended or not?
The point for whom? Unless you want to insist that greeters ought to be in the business of toughening up their customers' skins, the point might well be the affect on foot traffic into the store and not delivering lessons on how not to take offense.
Should it guide my forum-posting decisions?
Maybe.
If you really are PC, then shouldn't you care about offending the people that (mistakenly) believe in the War on Christmas?
It's probably not possible to avoid offending everyone. A commercially viable approach might be to either ignore a few people who are offended either way based on how loud the cash register rings or does not ring.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-16-2015 9:05 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 138 (774507)
12-18-2015 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by ringo
12-18-2015 11:25 AM


Since "merry" is hardly ever used in any other context, it does seem unusual that devout Christians would espouse it.
They espouse it because it is traditional, and most people don't make a link between the "Merry" in the greeting and getting liquored up. You link the two, and I am not saying that you are being unreasonable, but most people understand that the link is not part of the traditional meaning.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by ringo, posted 12-18-2015 11:25 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Theodoric, posted 12-18-2015 3:05 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 99 by ringo, posted 12-19-2015 11:55 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 80 of 138 (774519)
12-18-2015 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Tangle
12-18-2015 3:13 AM


Re: My take on the faux outrage
"Happy Holidays seems a bit like trying to make a point to me.
Well here is an example of someone use Happy Holidays just to make a point.
Texas Official 'Just Might Slap' Next Person Who Says 'Happy Holidays' | HuffPost Latest News
quote:
An elected official in Texas is threatening to slap anyone who wishes him "happy holidays" this year.
Republican Sid Miller, the state's agriculture commissioner, said on Facebook that people must say "Merry Christmas" to him or nothing at all.
This being the Internet, many immediately replied to Miller by wishing him "happy holidays," both in response to that post as well as others on his page.
Even the state's Democratic Party got in on the act, replying with a GIF that it says was deleted from Miller's Facebook page.
Saying 'Happy Holidays' does indeed have a point. Given the large number of actual holidays celebrated over the upcoming period, I'd suggest that the point is both benign and welcoming.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Tangle, posted 12-18-2015 3:13 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Tangle, posted 12-18-2015 4:28 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 138 (774522)
12-18-2015 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Theodoric
12-18-2015 3:05 PM


I think you and most christians misunderstand the traditional meaning
I think you are putting words in my mouth...
The idea that the phrase Merry Christmas is religious or solemn, is
I don't think "Merry Christmas" is particularly religious or solemn. That part of the meaning of Christmas has played a second fiddle to the commercialized Santa stuff for as long as I can remember.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Theodoric, posted 12-18-2015 3:05 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Theodoric, posted 12-18-2015 4:14 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024