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Author Topic:   A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs
Meddle
Member
Posts: 174
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 781 of 785 (857864)
07-12-2019 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 778 by Faith
07-11-2019 7:38 AM


Re: Creationist mindset
What I was trying to show was that you can get variation even in the absence of microevolution, the two are not necessarily linked. So the genes I mentioned would likely have the same sequences in all the original created kinds since they perform the same function.
But as the parent populations (the original kinds) they would accumulate errors during replication which will be neutral as they do not change the proteins (neutral mutations) and as the parent population split into subsequent daughter populations they would carry these neutral mutations with them like a parent to a child (which is what I meant with familial relationship of variation).

If all the original kinds were created separately then each would be experiencing it’s own set of neutral mutations, so for example you wouldn’t expect humans and chimps to have less variation than chimps and gorillas. But of course that is exactly what we do see, which allows us to put humans, chimps, gorillas and other apes into the same family tree.

None of this deals with evolution itself, but I’ll try to tackle that in a follow up post. Will wait to see your reply to this post first.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 778 by Faith, posted 07-11-2019 7:38 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 782 by Faith, posted 07-12-2019 9:46 AM Meddle has responded
 Message 785 by RAZD, posted 07-12-2019 5:25 PM Meddle has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32659
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 782 of 785 (857871)
07-12-2019 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 781 by Meddle
07-12-2019 9:15 AM


Re: Creationist mindset
Thanks for clarifying, most of it does make more sense now.

If all the original kinds were created separately then each would be experiencing it’s own set of neutral mutations,

Yes.

so for example you wouldn’t expect humans and chimps to have less variation than chimps and gorillas.

Lost me completely here. Humans AND chimps "have less variation?"

But of course that is exactly what we do see, which allows us to put humans, chimps, gorillas and other apes into the same family tree.

It's probably because you thlnk of variation in terms of mutations and I don't but I still can't figure this out.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 781 by Meddle, posted 07-12-2019 9:15 AM Meddle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 783 by Meddle, posted 07-12-2019 10:06 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Meddle
Member
Posts: 174
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 783 of 785 (857874)
07-12-2019 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 782 by Faith
07-12-2019 9:46 AM


Re: Creationist mindset
But where does that variation come from? Mutations are just a name for errors during cell replication. And at the moment I've talked about cytochrome genes which are involved in aerobic respiration in the cell, so serve same purpose in all eukaryotes; and mutations which don't change the proteins they produce, so are not affected by selection as they don't alter the design.

Edited by Meddle, : non-neutral typo


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 Message 782 by Faith, posted 07-12-2019 9:46 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20034
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 784 of 785 (857888)
07-12-2019 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 769 by Faith
07-09-2019 11:57 AM


the objective radiometric method, which is the only one that has any real scientific
Curious, Faith:

... the objective radiometric method, which is the only one that has any real scientific standing. ...

Can you define what you mean by this method?

Curious.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 769 by Faith, posted 07-09-2019 11:57 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20034
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 785 of 785 (857890)
07-12-2019 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 781 by Meddle
07-12-2019 9:15 AM


Re: Creationist mindset
If all the original kinds were created separately then each would be experiencing it’s own set of neutral mutations, so for example you wouldn’t expect humans and chimps to have less variation than chimps and gorillas. But of course that is exactly what we do see, which allows us to put humans, chimps, gorillas and other apes into the same family tree.

FWIW, I think you mean ... you wouldn’t expect less variation between humans and chimps than between chimps and gorillas ... ( and not less variation overall).

or ... you would expect more variation between humans and chimps than between chimps and gorillas ...

Good job.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 781 by Meddle, posted 07-12-2019 9:15 AM Meddle has not yet responded

  
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