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Author | Topic: The Biden Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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I think we all get that you want a Trump dictatorship. That’s why disqualifying him from holding office in the future is important.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
Yawn. Just because Trump is careful to avoid explicitly calling for an attack doesn’t mean that he didn’t want it. He told them to be strong, that they could win. Futilely marching around the Capitol while Trump’s defeat was made final hardly qualifies.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
quote: So, instead of answering the question you try and misrepresent the situation. I guess the proves you have no honest defence. Trump told them to attack, he just didn’t say so explicitlyl. There was no other way to win or to exert their strength that would affect the outcome. And you know that, that’s why you evade the point.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
In other words you have no honest answer.
Hardly a surprise.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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Oh look more dishonest evasion. What a surprise.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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I think carrying on with the lies about fraud and insisting that they could still win - even after exhausting every legal and pseudo-legal and completely-made-up-but-we-pretend-it’s-legal avenue was more important. There was no way to win other than overthrowing the government.
And when you tell a bunch of violent white supremacist thugs that they can win if they are strong - and when they know that violence is the only way to win - what else can you expect? Here is a transcript of the speech. You should be aware that Pence had already (correctly) insisted that the Constitution didn’t allow him to send votes back. Even though Trump insisted otherwise in the speech. That McConnell had called for the votes to be accepted before the march. That the House could and would reject any objections. And - importantly - Trump did NOT go with the marchers. While Trump called for peaceful protests - which they all knew - wouldn’t work - he also went and on about the alleged fraud. He fed the myth that Pence was a traitor, the myth that the Supreme Court was working against him.
We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore. So are the violent white supremacists going to waste time marching around outside - and being ignored by the Senators and Representatives - or are they going to fight like hell? Maybe if Trump was there they might have stayed more or less peaceful. But he wasn’t. He said he would be, but he left them to their own devices. Nobody should be surprised at the consequences.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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Some Republicans seem to actively want to spread the disease. It’s insane, but that is where US politics is today.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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You do realise that’s nuts? No taxes mean no military - except for private militaries. No police. No Medicare or Medicaid. No Social Security. Just a different flavour of the Right.
It’s Liberty for the rich and the corporations (Jeffrey Epstein would be just fine). Oppression for people like you.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
Rob Graham livetweets the official release of the report.
Earlier he tweeted on the leaked report (linked early in the thread). TLDR: all the “evidence” of fraud isn’t. The auditors (hired for partisan views, not experience) don’t really understand how the system operates.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
There’s an official answer from Maricopa County, starting here:
In short, military and overseas voters are allowed to vote in Federal elections, the address on their ballot would be their last US address. Some people move house around the time of the vote. In addition college students and old folks heading south for the winter will be elsewhere.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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quote: It says that the Secret Service reported a total of 411 trips. It does not say how many were with his father at all. The majority of them were domestic trips, not to foreign countries (note that the list includes trips within foreign countries, too) and they certainly weren’t all flights. The article says that there were 23 flights from Joint Base Andrews, but it doesn’t mention that only 2 were to foreign countries. It also says that he visited 29 countries. As Vice President Joe Biden visited 57 (National Geographic). So it’s really not looking like Hunter Biden “flew on air force 2 with his dad hundreds of times to foreign countries” (Message 161). The list doesn’t even include hundreds of flights to foreign countries (more like 60, including trips from one foreign country to another, and assuming all such trips were flights). And we can certainly rule out 400 trips on Air Force 2.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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Let us consider this alleged “gallop”
First, my invention was solely to examine your source, introducing no additional claims or arguments beyond that. That is hardly comparable to a Gish Gallop which is a barrage of assertions without investigating the evidence. The “gallop” seems to be more on your part. Second, you asserted that
I can't provide enough proof and resources to make even one liberal concede a point, since that's something liberals don't do anyway (Message 181) My intervention did not make it any harder for you to muster actual proof. So unless you mean that you can’t get away with falsely claiming to have evidence this is hardly relevant. Also about not conceding points… You raised the assertion that
during his dad's 8 year vice presidency, he flew on air force 2 with his dad hundreds of times to foreign countrie (Message 161) And at that time you only had two people responding to you. Not much of a gang. Even after it was pointed out that it was highly implausible you carried on with it, instead of dropping it to focus on stronger points. In Message 171 you tried to support the claim with a video from Fox News claiming “hundreds of flights” In Message 190 you tried to support your claim with this absurd argument:
U.S. vice presidents have more access to leisure time and air travel than most U.S. dads have to leisure time and car travel. 8 years is 2920 days. It's common for U.S. children to ride with their dads in cars hundreds of times over a period of 8 years. Now I don’t doubt that children - as children - get driven on many short trips. However adult children do not, and short trips are hardly comparable to even a domestic flight. Unless you think that Joe Biden regularly too Hunter to church- for instance - on AirForce 2 it really doesn’t make a lick of sense.Again, if the claim is unimportant and you feel overwhelmed it would make far more sense to drop it than to waste time with obvious nonsense. To pile absurdity on absurdity in Message 193 you accused Pressi of not having read it, as if that would make the argument any less absurd. In Message 203 - the message I replied to - you introduced the assertion that Judicial Watch supported the claim. In reality the article referred only to 411 trips - without specifying that they were either air trips or saying Joe Biden was present. (Indeed the only number for air trips it gave was 23). In Message 205 you went on and claimed that the Fox video got the information on the number fo flights from Judicial Watch. When in fact the information on Judicial Watch contradicted it. Again it seems a poor use of time to make two posts trying to back up a supposedly minor point - without even determining that the supposed evidence actually supported the point. It seems a rather clear example of the inability to drop even a hopelsssly implausible point. And none of this is the fault of the “gang”. Your bad choices are all on you. You didn’t have to make the claim in the first place. You didn’t have to keep on trying and failing to support it. You didn’t have to grossly misrepresent Judicial Watch. And you did all those things before my post went through. The problem isn’t the “gang”. The problem is you. Maybe you should try to fix it instead of blaming other people for your faults. That’s what it means to take personal responsibility.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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quote: My reason for doing it is that I checked your “evidence” and found it to contradict your assertions. Your invention has no basis in fact. Indeed the check is quite easy - you could have done it. And certainly Percy could.
quote: It is interesting that you see a victory for falsehood as the preferable state. But entirely consistent with your behaviour.
quote: Yet you didn’t follow up by dropping the claim. Indeed the real point was that you were insufficiently sceptical of an implausible claim. A point you have gone on to prove.
quote: The Judicial Watch report of course.
quote: Nobody seems to think that, although you’ve certainly given it more attention than you say it deserves.
quote: Apparently you missed the place in my post where I point out that you repeatedly returned to the claim. And indeed it is hardly likely that all of those trips are relevant at all. And if you knew that the 411 trips were mostly within the US and if you knew that there was no information on whether his father was with him or not would you really have written Message 203 or Message 205 ?
quote: The idea that all trips should automatically be considered “suspicious” is far worse. And that’s what you’re pushing.
quote: I think that Trump’s open nepotism goes far beyond anything that has been shown for Biden - and that is a relevant factor. Hunter Biden has not been given a cabinet position, for instance. And that is a relevant factor.
quote: And yet another ridiculous attempt to blame others. You weren’t “dealing with a gang gallop”. And you don’t have to deal with readers who aren’t responding. If you’re worried about “rage” maybe you could ease up on the nastiness, the dishonesty and the false accusations.
quote: If that was true it only makes your behaviour even more foolish. Why not drop a weak point if you have better ones? Why draw attention to it by writing two posts claiming to have the evidence - when you haven’t even looked at the supposed evidence ?
quote: Again, hardly a comparable situation. And likely these, too, would have been mostly local trips.
quote: No, the comparison still does not make sense. Nor does it make sense that the Vice President would make hundreds of trips to those two countries without it attracting wide attention.
quote: “Hunter Biden made hundreds of trips” is hardly a damning claim worth supporting. Further in Message 203 you were answering the assertion:
"Children" riding in cars with their dads "hundreds of times" does not translate to the Vice President's son flying to foreign countries hundreds of times with his father. That Hunter Biden made “hundreds of trips” which were not even “flying to foreign countries” is not an answer to that point at all. And in Message 205 you were expressly defending the Fox claim of hundreds of flights. I hardly think that you meant to indicate that Fox News were incompetents who seriously misrepresented Judicial Watch. So no, this is just another dishonest excuse. You were claiming hundreds of flights, not just hundreds of trips.
quote: So your defence of Fox News is that you badly misrepresented their claim. Because in Message 205 you indicate that Fox asserted 400 international flights. Not 400 trips of which only a small proportion (~15%) were international flights.
quote: I rather doubt that. Why waste time on a weak point - and embarrass yourself badly doing it - when you have stronger points? Indeed the number of responses is due to it being rather obviously implausible and the up fact that you made it despite that (and your uncritical acceptance of the Fox News claim - which you now say that didn’t even make!)
quote: I wouldn’t use that as an example of you lying. However it is certainly true that you made a false claim, tried to prop it up with a ridiculous analogy and when you claimed to have the evidence the actual evidence refuted the claim.
quote: It is certainly a reason not to trust your unsupported assertions. As if we need another one. There have been rather a lot of examples.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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The reserve is crude oil, and - according to what I’ve read - if it’s being shipped anywhere it’s for refining because the US doesn’t have the spare capacity.
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