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Author Topic:   Hovind: Lies in the Textbook
Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2959 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 31 of 79 (165208)
12-04-2004 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by NosyNed
12-04-2004 1:07 PM


Re: Graptolites
I am conceding that Hovind's claim that graptolites still exist may have some validity. Even if incorrect, there are non-creo sources that back the claim. On trilobites he is completely wrong. The difference between trilobites and isopods is not, as he claims, that trilobites have a three-lobed body while isopods have one (apparently a mutation could account for this difference!). The difference is that trilobites have one pair of pre-oral appendages while isopods have two. Not a big difference until you consider that the hardwiring of these appendages are so distinct as to suggest completely independant evolutionary histories. The brain of a trilobite has two sections while the brain of an isopod (and all other crustaceans) has three. In this respect trilobites are more similar to insects (not necessarily closer related though).

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 79 (165247)
12-04-2004 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by NosyNed
12-04-2004 3:27 PM


Re: Biased?
Does that mean you don't think he is wrong about many other things?
My statements pertained to the specifified point in question. I would not agree with him on some important stuff such as the age of the universe, which I contend to be eternal on the basis of an eternal creator who, imo, has forever been creating, destroying and rearanging things to suit himself.
So to answer your question, I believe he's right about a lot more than he is credited for here in this place, but in error on some important stuff. I think it is disingenuous, meanspirited and unfair for posters to malign him as a liar for what he believes. Being a god fearing person, I doubt that he would blatantly and purposfully lie.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by CK, posted 12-04-2004 9:21 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 38 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 12-05-2004 6:48 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 48 by lfen, posted 12-06-2004 2:26 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 79 (165248)
12-04-2004 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Lithodid-Man
12-04-2004 4:39 PM


Re: They are still funny now
Thanks for being honest with your concession, Litho. There seems to be pros and cons on some of this. I find it fascinating and will try to do some more reading on it. Peace!

This message is a reply to:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4156 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 34 of 79 (165250)
12-04-2004 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
12-04-2004 8:51 PM


Re: Biased?
could you point to something that you feel he is right about?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Buzsaw, posted 12-04-2004 9:56 PM CK has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 79 (165256)
12-04-2004 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by CK
12-04-2004 9:21 PM


Re: Biased?
could you point to something that you feel he is right about?
I could cite dozens of things I consider him to be right about, likely the greater percentage of his claims and statements, I would consider to be correct. I've presented one right here in this thread, the one, Litho has conceeded to. To get into a lot of his views would be to digress into numerous topics. Though I would not agree with him on the dinosaurs, age of earth and the universe as well as some other stuff, he man is just not the fool so many are making him out to be, imo. Besides, he's smart, humorous and entertaining to listen to.
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-04-2004 09:59 PM

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

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Replies to this message:
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Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2959 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 36 of 79 (165286)
12-05-2004 2:13 AM


What about this one
For instance, when I was in school we did the fruit fly experiment. They raised flies in the laboratory. They nuked them, they microwaved them, and they x-rayed them. They got those flies to have mutated babies. They got flies with curled wings. They fly around in circles and couldn’t go anywhere.
I understand what he is saying here. But the lie is that he was somehow a part of that. He did or his school (Patriot University?) did fruit fly mutation experiments? Maybe undergraduate? If so he did not work on these projects nor did, undoubtedly, the university he attended. To claim so is a LIE plain and simple. He is mixing the common intro to biology experiment (crossing purchased mutants with others to demonstrate Mendallian genetics) with the radiation-induced mutation experiments. To make a point about the lack of positive mutations in fruit flies (false, BTW) he claims personal observation where there was none. Liar liar pants on fire!

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4021 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 37 of 79 (165287)
12-05-2004 2:30 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Minnemooseus
12-04-2004 1:41 PM


Re: Index Fossils
Maybe it`s like comparing similar YEC columns. The deeper you dig, the more the fossilised arguments relate.

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The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 79 (165312)
12-05-2004 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
12-04-2004 8:51 PM


Are we biased? Maybe. Is he a monster? Absoulutely!
Buzzsaw says:
I think it is disingenuous, meanspirited and unfair for posters to malign him as a liar for what he believes. Being a god fearing person, I doubt that he would blatantly and purposfully lie.
Sorry for the huge cut and paste but I was so disgusted when I read this and I think you should see it buzz.
I took it from the "300 lies page."
Kent Hovind says:
"I took one of my kids to the dentist one time when he was about six or seven years old...He tried to sit still, but when the doctor pulled out that giant needle about twelve feet long, and poured in about eighteen gallons of Novocain, and said, Okay kid, open up, he freaked...He lost it. He was screaming and hollering and yelling...Finally, after a few minutes the doctor gave up and said, I cant work on this kid...I said, Doc, let me take him outside and talk to him for a few minutes."
"We went out to the parking lot, got in the old Chevy van and sat in the back seat. I said, Son, listen carefully. You know that I love you."
"He said, I know daddy. I said, Now son, I told you to sit still. You did not sit still. What happens when you disobey daddy? He said, Sniff, sniff... I get a spanking? I said, Correct, bend over. Boy, did I give him a spanking, and it was a doozy. A few minutes later, smoke was rising off his hind end, tears were coming out of his eyes, and pearls were coming out of his nostrils"
"We are going to go back into the dentist office, and you are going to sit in that chair. If you wiggle one time, Im not going to yell at you and Im not going to scream at you. Im going to calmly take you back out here to the van, and Im going to give you two spankings just like the one you just received. Then, we are going to go back into the dentist office, and you are going to sit in the chair. If you wiggle, we are going to come back out to the van, and you are going to get three spankings just like the one you just got. Son, we are going to go back and forth all day long until I get tired, and I have played tennis for years. I have a wonderful forehand smash. I dont believe Ill get tired for a long time, son."
"The doctor then said,...I dont know what you said to that kid while you were outside, but I would like for you to work for me. I said, No sir, you dont want me to work for you, the Child Welfare would have me in jail in a flash...The second time that we were in the dentists office, the kid was still scared of the dentist; no question about it. He was scared, but he was more scared of me than anything else in the world at that time."
I don't know if this disturbs you as much as it disturbs me buzz.
I think that he is a wolf in sheeps clothing buzz. He is masquerading as a "God fearing person". But all he is doing is hurting the church. He is leading his "fellow" christians astray by turning them against rationality. He is hurting evangalisum becasue nobody wants to join a religion that is adamantly opposed to ratioanl thought and the sceintific method.
Now I don't want to pull this thread way of topic here so let's not discuss child abuse or spanking. But I do think modreate rational creationists and christians would do themselves a great servace if they didn't try to defend this guy.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4156 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 39 of 79 (165313)
12-05-2004 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Buzsaw
12-04-2004 9:56 PM


Re: Biased?
sounds like a dodge to me - just name the first five that come into your mind.

This message is a reply to:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 40 of 79 (165321)
12-05-2004 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by The Dread Dormammu
12-05-2004 6:48 AM


Re: Are we biased? Maybe. Is he a monster? Absoulutely!
Now I don't want to pull this thread way of topic here so let's not discuss child abuse or spanking. But I do think modreate rational creationists and christians would do themselves a great servace if they didn't try to defend this guy.
Then you should not have introduced this quote. It is off topic and not relevant to whether he lies about scientific things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 12-05-2004 6:48 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied

Replies to this message:
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The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 79 (165512)
12-05-2004 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by AdminNosy
12-05-2004 10:01 AM


I was responding to Buzzsaws now edeted out assretion
Buzzsaw has deleted the quote at the top of my post.
The quote seemed to imply that even if Hovind says things that aren't true it's ok becase he is a decent God fearing fellow and that they therefore must be honest mistakes.
Buzzsaw seemed to be saying that, if you are a decent fellow then you aren't a liar. Well Hovind is not a decent fellow so perhaps he is a liar.
You are right though, it is off topic. Horrible people can tell the truth, and decent folks can lie. We should judge Hovinds claims based on their own merit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by AdminNosy, posted 12-05-2004 10:01 AM AdminNosy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by AdminNosy, posted 12-05-2004 10:06 PM The Dread Dormammu has replied
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 42 of 79 (165513)
12-05-2004 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by The Dread Dormammu
12-05-2004 10:02 PM


Deleteing of content
Now my question for Buz is: Why did you delete some content?
Are you trying to pretend you never said it? That, in my mind, is intellectually dishonest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 12-05-2004 10:02 PM The Dread Dormammu has replied

Replies to this message:
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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 79 (165514)
12-05-2004 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by The Dread Dormammu
12-05-2004 10:02 PM


Re: I was responding to Buzzsaws now edeted out assretion
Which message from Buz was edited. I looked through the thread and it appears that the quote you included from Buz is still there and that Buz had not edited the message for content.
see Message 32

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AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2330 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 44 of 79 (165515)
12-05-2004 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by AdminJar
12-05-2004 10:12 PM


Re: I was responding to Buzzsaws now edeted out assretion
Was just going to post this also. Nothing was edited out of buz's post, in fact it wasn't edited at all.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe


http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

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The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 79 (165517)
12-05-2004 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by AdminNosy
12-05-2004 10:06 PM


No sorry sorry it's in another post.
Sorry my mistake. It's a quote from another post with the same title.
Sorry that was realy sloppy of me.
I saw that he had edited a similar post today, after I posted my reply, and it had the same title but the quote is still there.
Really sorry to accuse you of that Buzz. It was a stupid mistake for me to not check the messege number.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Buzsaw, posted 12-06-2004 12:15 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied
 Message 47 by AdminNosy, posted 12-06-2004 1:15 AM The Dread Dormammu has not replied

  
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