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Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 504 From: Juneau, Alaska, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Hovind: Lies in the Textbook | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lithodid-Man Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 504 From: Juneau, Alaska, USA Joined: |
I am conceding that Hovind's claim that graptolites still exist may have some validity. Even if incorrect, there are non-creo sources that back the claim. On trilobites he is completely wrong. The difference between trilobites and isopods is not, as he claims, that trilobites have a three-lobed body while isopods have one (apparently a mutation could account for this difference!). The difference is that trilobites have one pair of pre-oral appendages while isopods have two. Not a big difference until you consider that the hardwiring of these appendages are so distinct as to suggest completely independant evolutionary histories. The brain of a trilobite has two sections while the brain of an isopod (and all other crustaceans) has three. In this respect trilobites are more similar to insects (not necessarily closer related though).
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Does that mean you don't think he is wrong about many other things? My statements pertained to the specifified point in question. I would not agree with him on some important stuff such as the age of the universe, which I contend to be eternal on the basis of an eternal creator who, imo, has forever been creating, destroying and rearanging things to suit himself. So to answer your question, I believe he's right about a lot more than he is credited for here in this place, but in error on some important stuff. I think it is disingenuous, meanspirited and unfair for posters to malign him as a liar for what he believes. Being a god fearing person, I doubt that he would blatantly and purposfully lie.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Thanks for being honest with your concession, Litho. There seems to be pros and cons on some of this. I find it fascinating and will try to do some more reading on it. Peace!
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CK Member (Idle past 4156 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
could you point to something that you feel he is right about?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
could you point to something that you feel he is right about? I could cite dozens of things I consider him to be right about, likely the greater percentage of his claims and statements, I would consider to be correct. I've presented one right here in this thread, the one, Litho has conceeded to. To get into a lot of his views would be to digress into numerous topics. Though I would not agree with him on the dinosaurs, age of earth and the universe as well as some other stuff, he man is just not the fool so many are making him out to be, imo. Besides, he's smart, humorous and entertaining to listen to. This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-04-2004 09:59 PM The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz
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Lithodid-Man Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 504 From: Juneau, Alaska, USA Joined: |
For instance, when I was in school we did the fruit fly experiment. They raised flies in the laboratory. They nuked them, they microwaved them, and they x-rayed them. They got those flies to have mutated babies. They got flies with curled wings. They fly around in circles and couldn’t go anywhere.
I understand what he is saying here. But the lie is that he was somehow a part of that. He did or his school (Patriot University?) did fruit fly mutation experiments? Maybe undergraduate? If so he did not work on these projects nor did, undoubtedly, the university he attended. To claim so is a LIE plain and simple. He is mixing the common intro to biology experiment (crossing purchased mutants with others to demonstrate Mendallian genetics) with the radiation-induced mutation experiments. To make a point about the lack of positive mutations in fruit flies (false, BTW) he claims personal observation where there was none. Liar liar pants on fire!
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4021 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Maybe it`s like comparing similar YEC columns. The deeper you dig, the more the fossilised arguments relate.
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Buzzsaw says:
I think it is disingenuous, meanspirited and unfair for posters to malign him as a liar for what he believes. Being a god fearing person, I doubt that he would blatantly and purposfully lie. Sorry for the huge cut and paste but I was so disgusted when I read this and I think you should see it buzz. I took it from the "300 lies page." Kent Hovind says:
"I took one of my kids to the dentist one time when he was about six or seven years old...He tried to sit still, but when the doctor pulled out that giant needle about twelve feet long, and poured in about eighteen gallons of Novocain, and said, Okay kid, open up, he freaked...He lost it. He was screaming and hollering and yelling...Finally, after a few minutes the doctor gave up and said, I cant work on this kid...I said, Doc, let me take him outside and talk to him for a few minutes." "We went out to the parking lot, got in the old Chevy van and sat in the back seat. I said, Son, listen carefully. You know that I love you." "He said, I know daddy. I said, Now son, I told you to sit still. You did not sit still. What happens when you disobey daddy? He said, Sniff, sniff... I get a spanking? I said, Correct, bend over. Boy, did I give him a spanking, and it was a doozy. A few minutes later, smoke was rising off his hind end, tears were coming out of his eyes, and pearls were coming out of his nostrils" "We are going to go back into the dentist office, and you are going to sit in that chair. If you wiggle one time, Im not going to yell at you and Im not going to scream at you. Im going to calmly take you back out here to the van, and Im going to give you two spankings just like the one you just received. Then, we are going to go back into the dentist office, and you are going to sit in the chair. If you wiggle, we are going to come back out to the van, and you are going to get three spankings just like the one you just got. Son, we are going to go back and forth all day long until I get tired, and I have played tennis for years. I have a wonderful forehand smash. I dont believe Ill get tired for a long time, son." "The doctor then said,...I dont know what you said to that kid while you were outside, but I would like for you to work for me. I said, No sir, you dont want me to work for you, the Child Welfare would have me in jail in a flash...The second time that we were in the dentists office, the kid was still scared of the dentist; no question about it. He was scared, but he was more scared of me than anything else in the world at that time." I don't know if this disturbs you as much as it disturbs me buzz. I think that he is a wolf in sheeps clothing buzz. He is masquerading as a "God fearing person". But all he is doing is hurting the church. He is leading his "fellow" christians astray by turning them against rationality. He is hurting evangalisum becasue nobody wants to join a religion that is adamantly opposed to ratioanl thought and the sceintific method. Now I don't want to pull this thread way of topic here so let's not discuss child abuse or spanking. But I do think modreate rational creationists and christians would do themselves a great servace if they didn't try to defend this guy.
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CK Member (Idle past 4156 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
sounds like a dodge to me - just name the first five that come into your mind.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Now I don't want to pull this thread way of topic here so let's not discuss child abuse or spanking. But I do think modreate rational creationists and christians would do themselves a great servace if they didn't try to defend this guy. Then you should not have introduced this quote. It is off topic and not relevant to whether he lies about scientific things.
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Buzzsaw has deleted the quote at the top of my post.
The quote seemed to imply that even if Hovind says things that aren't true it's ok becase he is a decent God fearing fellow and that they therefore must be honest mistakes. Buzzsaw seemed to be saying that, if you are a decent fellow then you aren't a liar. Well Hovind is not a decent fellow so perhaps he is a liar. You are right though, it is off topic. Horrible people can tell the truth, and decent folks can lie. We should judge Hovinds claims based on their own merit.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Now my question for Buz is: Why did you delete some content?
Are you trying to pretend you never said it? That, in my mind, is intellectually dishonest.
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AdminJar Inactive Member |
Which message from Buz was edited. I looked through the thread and it appears that the quote you included from Buz is still there and that Buz had not edited the message for content.
see Message 32 Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to: Change in Moderation? (General discussion of moderation procedures) or Thread Reopen Requests or Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum or Introducing the new "Boot Camp" forum
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AdminAsgara Administrator (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: |
Was just going to post this also. Nothing was edited out of buz's post, in fact it wasn't edited at all.
AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com-Change in Moderation? - Thread Reopen Requests -Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum -Introducing the new "Boot Camp" forum http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Sorry my mistake. It's a quote from another post with the same title.
Sorry that was realy sloppy of me. I saw that he had edited a similar post today, after I posted my reply, and it had the same title but the quote is still there. Really sorry to accuse you of that Buzz. It was a stupid mistake for me to not check the messege number.
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