$50 to anyone who can prove to me Evolution is a lie.

I'll give ya 100 bucks to prove that evolution isn't a religion/lie.------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

No, I don't have 100 bucks I was just wondering why this statement was made "$50 to anyone who can..." If you cannot prove Evolution isn't a lie then how can anyone prove that it is one?It's like saying I saw a pink fuzzy unicorn yesterday, prove me wrong!
But how can I prove you wrong if I don't know if you are right?The answer is your not right. Prove Evolution before you start making statements about proving it isn't true...
Another useless topic.------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

It's not about proving it wrong, that's exactly my point, It's about proving it right. No one can prove something that doesn't exist wrong. It's not there to prove wrong. Adaptation is the only observable part of evolution but Creationists except microevolution as part of life. Don't tell me to prove adaptation wrong. Micro Evolution is correct.------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

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The theory of evolution by natural selection asserts that adaptation is at the heart of the diversity of life on Earth. If you accept adaptation, you accept evolution. The changes that make organisms adapt to their environments are the exact same as the changes that, over time, create whole new categories of organisms.

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"If you accept adaptation, you accept evolution."No, incorrect, adaptation is only a part of evolution, the main parts of evolution are:1. Cosmic evolution- the origin of time, space and matter. Big Bang2. Chemical evolution- the origin of higher elements from hydrogen.3. Stellar and planetary evolution. Origin of stars and planets.4. Organic evolution. Origin of Life.5. Origin of major kinds. Macro-evolution.6. Variations within kinds. Micro-evolution. Only this one has been observed.(from Hovind in that debate.)Basically evolution uses a known fact to manipulate the truth, It uses adaptation as part in the theory. Adaptation is not evolution so Mr. Hambre please stop saying that it is."The changes that make organisms adapt to their environments are the exact same as the changes that, over time, create whole new categories of organisms"There is no proof of Evolution ocurring over time, so your theory is left obviously unproven and without evidence.------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

Will the dictionary work?religion, noun.
1. belief in God or gods.
evolution does not require a belief in god(s)2. worship of God or gods.
doesn't fit3. a particular system of religious belief and worship.

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Ex. the Christian religion, the Moslem religion.
often misrepresented by Creationists, saying "evolution" is a system of belief, but the dictionary specifies clearly the system of beliefs must be religious in nature.

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4. anything done or followed with reverence or devotion.
that's all it's worth to me, laughingly, fifty bucks.
Nobody will care in 100 years from now, what I believed.

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Religion: A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.Set of beliefs: Evolution
Practices: Science Courses
Based on teachings of Darwin!
A Religion.(dictionary.com, meaning number 3.)------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

"But adaptation is sufficient to explain the origin of new species through time. So it is, in fact, evolution."Again you use adaptation as a blinding curtain to hide the falisies of evolution. Adaptation happens, Evolving Creatures over time to different creatures doesn't, No creature has ever adapted to the degree to be a different animal.Darwin wasn't the first one to recognize adaptation, ( in my view as a Creationist ) Noah did when putting animals on the Ark. He would get one dog and that dog would adapt to the other species of dog. See the Below Link: Caring for the Animals on the Ark | Answers in Genesis Look at "What is a kind?" In the reference it explains in great detail what I just explained above in miniscul detail.------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

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Religion is revelatory. Science is not. Case closed - not a religion. Anyway modern evolutinary theory isn't "based on the teachings of Darwin" any more than modern physics is just Newton's ideas. There's a lot more going on. We don't teach from Darwin's books anymore, you might have noticed. On the other hand your religion has been using the same textbook for 2000 years or more. Get with the times!

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Exactly, my textbook doesn't change, it is the infallible word of God. My textbook will never change because what it says is and always will be true. That's the problem with books that man has devised. They change, they aren't reliable. But God made my textbook and he is reliable, not man. Can you put your trust fully in any man? No, not really. With God you can trust him forever.

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Anyway modern evolutinary theory isn't "based on the teachings of Darwin

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So the theory has evolved ( ) ? No but seriously Darwin made evolution. He did not discover it, for something to be discovered it has to be there (remember), It's his IDEA or THEORY, not a discovery. Your just advancing on what he thought was correct at the time... (ex. He considered white people to be the master race.) You are taking his ideas and fitting them to a modern world. Racism is considered wrong today (which it is) so you do not follow him on that idea. Sure your in the times, but the times aren't reliable.------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

"Again you use adaptation as a blinding curtain to hide the falisies of evolution. Adaptation happens, Evolving Creatures over time to different creatures doesn't, No creature has ever adapted to the degree to be a different animal."

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1/Baseless assertion. Why to evolutionary trees based on morphological characteristics & genetic sequence data agree, then? Why are both generally congruent with the stratigraphy of fossils? Seems to me to be excellent evidence of what you say can't happen, did. Do you have anything other than incredulity & rhetoric to support your claim?

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2/A lineage that evolves even slightly becomes a "different creature". One that does it a lot becomes a very different creature.

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3/What fallacies of evolution?

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First off

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2/A lineage that evolves even slightly becomes a "different creature". One that does it a lot becomes a very different creature.

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Do you realize in any way what you are saying? If a rabbit's fur turns white because of it's area of snow for camoflauge, it, or it's lineage evolve into different creatures? (Please use the term evolved lightly ) No of course not, the fur might carry over to the offspring, therefore the offspring also have white fur. This is how genetics work.If I work out at the gym for basketball (adapting to the game, have to get stronger to compete, ya know) and I gain muscle, your saying I or my kids (in the future) or totally different creatures??!?! No I am PE the same person/(creature.)Secondly,

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3/What fallacies of evolution?

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All of it! (With the exception of what you call micro-evolution.)Thirdly,

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1/Baseless assertion. Why to evolutionary trees based on morphological characteristics & genetic sequence data agree, then? Why are both generally congruent with the stratigraphy of fossils? Seems to me to be excellent evidence of what you say can't happen, did. Do you have anything other than incredulity & rhetoric to support your claim?

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"Baseless Assertion" No I am the one on Baseful ground, a firm foundation!"Why to evolutionary trees based on morphological characteristics & genetic sequence data agree, then? Why are both generally congruent with the stratigraphy of fossils?"Show me, Back it up! How do I know anything you say is true? Explain in greater detail, C'mon I want to see this genetic sequence data, or the the evolutionary trees!" Do you have anything other than incredulity & rhetoric to support your claim?"The Question is: Do you?------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

Religion: A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
Set of beliefs: Evolution
Practices: Science Courses
Based on teachings of Darwin!
A Religion.(dictionary.com, meaning number 3.)-------------

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Where do you get the information that Darwin was / is a spiritual leader? Buddha, Jesus, Gandhi would qualify as spiritual leaders. People are even debating on whether or not Darwin believed in God.
He was a scientist.
I do not let scientists decide my spiritual views.
Nor do I let spiritual men, guide my scientific beliefs.

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I went to dictionary.com
and searched for evolution... there is nothing in the dictionary that would deem evolution as a "religion". That wasn't an oversight of the publisher. That was intentional. What "god" do evolutionists all have in common, what is its name? When was the last time, tithes were gathered for the god of evolution, or the believers gathered to sacrifice animals or their firstborn babies to Baal or Merodach, or Jehovah? What is the name of this god, evolutionists supposedly cling to, that unites them in their "flock" or "fold". Where are the preachers, the shepherds, who guide evolutionists in their "spiritual journey" of genetic modification and other scientific research?

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Now, I looked up christianity, and it is defined as a religion.

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EVOLUTION:
A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. See Synonyms at development.
The process of developing. Gradual development. Biology.
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species. The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny. A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements.
Mathematics. The extraction of a root of a quantity.
RELIGION WAS NOT FOUND IN THE ENTIRE DEFINITION FOR "EVOLUTION"
SORRY. BUT THAT IS BECAUSE IT'S NOT A RELIGION.

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CHRISTIANITY:
The Christian religion, founded on the life and teachings of Jesus.
Christians as a group; Christendom. The state or fact of being a Christian. pl. Christianities A particular form or sect of the Christian religion: the Christianities of antiquity.

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RELIGION:

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Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

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A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

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The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

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A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

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DARWIN WAS NOT A SPIRITUAL LEADER. HE RESEARCHED AND WROTE ABOUT SCIENCE, NOT SPIRITUALITY. Darwin was interested in scientific discovery, not spiritual issues.

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I hope this helps clarify, beyond doubt, evolution is not a religious system of beliefs.

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No this doesn't clarify anything, deems pretty useless to me."Where do you get the information that Darwin was / is a spiritual leader? Buddha, Jesus, Gandhi would qualify as spiritual leaders. People are even debating on whether or not Darwin believed in God.
He was a scientist.
I do not let scientists decide my spiritual views.
Nor do I let spiritual men, guide my scientific beliefs."IN REPLY:He made a religion/system of beliefs, this qualifies him as the leader.It's evolution that is the problem, of course the meaning wouldn't mark evolution as a religion, everyone thinks it is factual. When in reality it is not. I am part of a minority remember..."DARWIN WAS NOT A SPIRITUAL LEADER. HE RESEARCHED AND WROTE ABOUT SCIENCE, NOT SPIRITUALITY. Darwin was interested in scientific discovery, not spiritual issues."IN REPLY:What you call science is not. (Science: The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.) (From dictionary.com) Science is observable evolution beyond the known fact of Adaptation isn't. (I went over why adaptation isn't evolution more then enough)And Darwin didn't know that his theory crossed the line of science into spirituality. It did.------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

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Exactly, my textbook doesn't change, it is the infallible word of God. My textbook will never change because what it says is and always will be true.

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The problem is, what your book says is wrong.

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I'd rather be almost right, and getting closer, than eternally and totally wrong. After all, if your book was right, don't you think the findings of science would be moving closer to it, instead of so drastically away from it?

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So the theory has evolved ( ) ?

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Yeah, theories adapt and change in the light of new evidence. I know the idea of basing what you believe on verifyable, physical evidence is an alien one to you, but it's what science does. And the evidence we have access to changes over time. So it's only natural that our models of the world change, too.

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That fact that the bible is unchanging is the clearest evidence to me that it's wrong.

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First:The problem is, what your book says is wrong.I'd rather be almost right, and getting closer, than eternally and totally wrong. After all, if your book was right, don't you think the findings of science would be moving closer to it, instead of so drastically away from it?IN REPLY: My book is not wrong everything it says in it has happened, and will happen."I'd rather be almost right, and getting closer, than eternally and totally wrong. After all, if your book was right, don't you think the findings of science would be moving closer to it, instead of so drastically away from it?"Name some "findings of science" that move closer to Evolution, or away from Creation. Please."Yeah, theories adapt and change in the light of new evidence. I know the idea of basing what you believe on verifyable, physical evidence is an alien one to you, but it's what science does. And the evidence we have access to changes over time. So it's only natural that our models of the world change, too.That fact that the bible is unchanging is the clearest evidence to me that it's wrong."IN REPLY:An insult? I'd say so."That fact that the bible is unchanging is the clearest evidence to me that it's wrong."IN REPLY:Thats what make the Bible so right! We are obviously polarized here."Yeah, theories adapt and change in the light of new evidence. I know the idea of basing what you believe on verifyable, physical evidence is an alien one to you, but it's what science does. And the evidence we have access to changes over time. So it's only natural that our models of the world change, too."IN REPLY:That is what makes "theories" not all the way correct, it starts with an idea and changes to something that seems correct. But with observability does it only become Science, or correct in the eyes of man.Good Night, Sharon, crashfrog. I need the sleep.------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

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A continumm of genetic similarity and morphological similarity, starting with those animals that look most like us (primates) being the most genetically similar - including the same broken genes and garbage DNA - and decreasing as we look farther away. For instance.

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But how do you know if God made it like that, that is not moving away from Creation at all.
Linearity in the fossil record, from simpler organisms on the bottom to more advanced forms on top. For instance.
The fossil record is explained here, basically the record is made of 95% Marine specimens, AiG explains why land animals are found at the top providing evidence for evolution, but this isn't evidence, heres the link: Where Are All the Human Fossils? | Answers in Genesis
Scroll down, look at The Nature of the Fossil Record."None of this makes sense from a view of creation. But it makes plenty of sense with an explanation of evolution."Check out the link, as for the DNA, God made everything, thus the formations of DNA and the genetic closeness and farther distances are from the Creator.

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Thats what make the Bible so right!
But it was written by men with limited knowledge. That's why it's wrong about so much stuff. (Take a look through the biblical inerrancy board to see some examples.) If the bible doesn't change when we find out something new, then it's wrong. it's pretty simple, really.

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Those men had more knowledge then you in the eyes of the Creator. (I'll look into the board), but I know that I won't find anything, valid...
You don't understand, God knows everything, he made it, when a mere finding is made it doesn't make the Bible wrong.

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But with observability does it only become Science, or correct in the eyes of man.
What other eyes are there? Even your bible was written by men. (And maybe some women.) And god's not talkin'...

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"Correct in the eyes of man", Ever hear the phrase I won't believe it until I see it?
But then you say, Yes you haven't seen God so you are contridicting yourself now.
Of course God's talkin' but the world is either to blind or ignorant to hear it. No, I've seen God working through many pastors, and speakers, telling his story, or reading his word. You can't see God until you know him. He comes into your life through the Holy Spirit. I'm not trying to preach but this is what I believe, and this argument will not end unless we make a compromise... But that is impossible, we are held to strongly at odds. And my belief depends on eternity, yours doesn't. My Bible was written by God through men.

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However, rather than challenging you to come up with something resembling a working definition of "kind" - since it is the basis of your assertion that change between "kinds" is impossible - I'd like to address what appears to be a more fundamental problem. Implicitly or not, you seem to have an extremely narrow, and erroneous, idea of what "science" itself is, based on the above and on subsequent postings. You appear to advocate that only that which is observable or directly manipulatable is science. Every time I encounter this argument, I am again amazed at how anyone living in our modern, technological world can maintain such a limited, parochial view of the incredible endeavor that is science. Do you really think that all scientists do is go out and collect bags of facts or putter about with expensive and exotic glassware in laboratories? It boggles my mind that someone can hold this attitude and yet sit in front of a computer, compose messages to people half-way around the world, and send them out instantaneously through a system that is based in large measure on the theoretical properties and behavior of things no one has ever directly observed or manipulated! The cognitive dissonance inherent in this worldview is beyond my comprehension. It truly is.

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Science: The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.I see clearly where it says theoretical explanation of phenomena. Theories aren't Science until proven to a certain degree. Am I wrong?
Now my point is that Evolution is not proven to the certain degree of it all being true. All the evidences seem to be thwarted, [ie. the fossil record.]
I see where your coming from, you think that Evolution is Science because it has been proven countless amounts of times. I disagree. The rest of Science is observable. Which evolution clearly is not.

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Of course science is wrong! It was rather wrong yesterday, and it is, admittedly, somewhat wrong today, and it will be ever-so-slightly wrong tomorrow! But it is continually becoming less wrong, and it is demonstrably closer to the truth about nature than any other form of knowledge. Now, kindly tell us, where is your religion wrong?

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It isn't. The Bible isn't wrong! My beliefs aren't wrong.quote:
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Show me, Back it up! How do I know anything you say is true? Explain in greater detail, C'mon I want to see this genetic sequence data, or the the evolutionary trees!
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Somehow I truly doubt you could even have the faintest grasp of what a tree tells you or how it is reconstructed much less doing it yourself from raw sequences...but you are very right not to take somones word for things as true...

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The genetic sequences were made by God, (if this is what you mean) the data is closer between us and primates, and then the data decreases going down through the other animals. (Crashfrog told me this before.)Thats a lot o' links.

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Baseless assertion, again. You claimed there was a fallacy. Please show where. Simply wishing it to be so does not make it so.

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Proof within DNA sequences. You use real facts to prove your theory within it's boundaries. But God made everything (cannot stress that enough.) It was made like that. Sure if it supports your theory, go ahead use it.The Fossil Record, scroll up to the link to AiG.Schrafinator,I believe in Science as a whole, God made the Sciences. But when a theory that has not been proven interferes I start not to trust what you call science, (which is what I call Evolution.)-I'll be out. (Sharon I didn't answer you because I feel it useless for me to do so, I have expressed to you what I believe.) Wow too many people to debate with.------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

" Do you have anything other than incredulity & rhetoric to support your claim?"

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The Question is: Do you?

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"Yup, see above, the ball is back in your court. I repeat, do you have anything other than incredulity & rhetoric to support your claim?"IN REPLY: Creation: Where’s the Proof? | Answers in Genesis
Ill match your link. This guy explains more on a less scientific approach, why Creationists rely on the Bible and Why what we see around us all makes sense using it.-last one before I have to go ------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

I see where messenjah is coming from. You are making a mockery out of the Bible by trying to fit it into every possible situation. The NASA comment was just over the edge.------------------
Psalm 14:1
The Fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

It's a matter of faith my friend. ------------------
Psalm 14:1
The Fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

I accept all science, no science that I see contradicts The Word Of God.Show me what you think does in fact do the Contradicting.------------------
Psalm 14:1
The Fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin