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Author Topic:   Radiometric Dating and the Geologic Column: A Critique
Percy
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Posts: 22502
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 31 of 113 (166546)
12-09-2004 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Anti-Climacus
12-08-2004 11:53 PM


Suggestion: shorter posts.
I'll just respond to your claim that Woodmorappe has been misreprented by Henke at Hiding the Numbers to Defame Radiometric Dating:
Why would Woodmorappe go out of his way to take a 2 mya discordance out of context when he already cited a 200 mya discordance in the same subsection?
But Woodmorappe didn't say it was a 2 mya discordance, did he (neither did Henke - he said 1%, and simple math yields a difference (including +/- error ranges provided in the excerpt) ranging from 0.2 to 1.1 million years)? No, he said:
[text=black]The same unit was most likely the one dated by Evernden et al. (1964) at 66.4 Ma [Ma ]. These ages are most likely too old, owing to the inclusion of detrital grains in the mineral separates.[/text]
And he presents this without giving the amount of discordance shortly after describing a 250 mya discordance precisely to give the impression that the magnitude of error is large, when it's only around 1%. Seems like Henke has fairly accurately characterized Woodmorappe's misrepresentation.
The name of the subsection might have been detection of open-system behavior, but as your quote of the discussion of the 250 mya discordance reveals, Woodmorappe is not limiting himself to that topic in this subsection. Here's your quote of Woodmorappe again for your convenience:
Woodmorappe writes:
Apart from everything else that has been discussed in this section of the paper, the fallacy of the claims advanced by Leveson and Seidemann is proven by the many cases of dates which are recognized as reliable, only to be later discarded in favor of some other presumably-reliable dates which contradict the first set of erstwhile-reliable dates. Many such examples are given in this paper. Let me give another: Some U-Pb zircon dates from the Adirondack Mountain region of New York (McLelland et al 1997, p.A-466), based on bulk-zircon dating, yielded values up to 1416 million years old. These had been accepted as reliable — that is, until single-grain dates yielded results some 250 million years younger. All of a sudden, the earlier ostensibly-reliable dates had to be rejected.
Thanks for providing this quote, because it makes it clear that Woodmorappe is trying to communicate precisely the misrepresentation he's accused of by Henke, subsection title notwithstanding.
An observation: this discussion will advance little if we spend all our time on cross-accusations of impropriety. Though you say you'll ride this one out, I think it would be more productive to focus on a case for which the paper in question is available on the Internet. To do otherwise is to debate in the presence of too much incomplete and questionable information.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Anti-Climacus, posted 12-08-2004 11:53 PM Anti-Climacus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Loudmouth, posted 12-09-2004 12:59 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 47 by JonF, posted 12-09-2004 6:13 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22502
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 98 of 113 (168287)
12-14-2004 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by NosyNed
12-14-2004 9:47 PM


Re: Time to back up
I'd like to echo these sentiments. I briefly checked this thread earlier today and couldn't seem to find where Anti-Climacus had addressed the issues raised with his criticisms of the Martian meteorite paper. I still haven't been able to find the time to carefully read the posts to this thread since last Friday, but if its true this issue isn't being addressed then it needs to be raised again.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by NosyNed, posted 12-14-2004 9:47 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22502
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 100 of 113 (168513)
12-15-2004 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Anti-Climacus
12-14-2004 6:55 PM


Hi Anti-Climacus,
I'd like to try to get this thread back on track. You provided an example of poor scientific practices in Message 60, and there were a number of replies:
Beginning at Message 82 you posted five replies, not one of which was a reply to any of these messages. Specifically:
To bring this thread back on course I think you need to address the responses to your Message 60, which I again list:
Thanks!
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Anti-Climacus, posted 12-14-2004 6:55 PM Anti-Climacus has not replied

  
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