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Author Topic:   Are Uranium Halos the best evidence of (a) an old earth AND (b) constant physics?
Smooth Operator
Member (Idle past 3571 days)
Posts: 630
Joined: 07-24-2009


Message 83 of 142 (552305)
03-28-2010 5:31 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by RAZD
03-23-2010 10:58 PM


Re: More evidence that radioactive rates have not changed
Hi there RAZD, I would like you to address these issues please...

Uranium halos are not evidence for an old Earth because they are based on two assumptions you don't know anything about. So let's take it step by step...

1.) Half life of U238.
2.) Halo itself.

1.) The claim that U238 half-life is 4.5 billion years. How do you know that? Where has this been shown to be true? You don't know that. You assume that. And since you don't know it, you don't know that it took 4.5 billion years to make ANY U238 halo. Even if, I repeat, even if, there was no accelerated alpha decay. You still wouldn't have any evidence for an old Earth. Why? Well because you don't know the half-life of the U238 to begin with. You never saw it form. You didn't, nor did anyone else I presume, stand there for 4.5 billion years and observe the U238 halo form. Since you never observed it form, you don't know it's half-life.

2.) And the second assumption, which is even worse. Is the assumption that the U238 halo was produced by a constand decay rate. And then you turn and say that since it was constant decy, it had constant energy, thus a specific halo was formed that can only be produced by constant energy. That's circular logic. Since you don't know by what energy strength was that halo formed, you don't know if it was formed by constant decay, and of course constant energy. And you don't know that, because you never saw a U238 halo form, and what energy it took to form the said halo, that you never saw form in the first place.

In conclusion...

a.) You don't know the half-life of Uranium 238.
b.) You don't know what energy and decay rates it takes to form a Uranium 238 halo.
c.) For any Uranium 238 halo you see, you don't know if it was formed by a constant rate of decay and energy, because you never observed them form in the first place.
d.) Therefore Uranium 238 halos do not have to be 4.5 billion years old.
e.) Therefore Uranium 238 halos do not have to be produced by constant decay rate and energy strength.
f.) Therefore Uranium 238 halos are not evidence for an old Earth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by RAZD, posted 03-23-2010 10:58 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by cavediver, posted 03-28-2010 5:48 AM Smooth Operator has not yet responded
 Message 90 by RAZD, posted 03-28-2010 10:30 PM Smooth Operator has not yet responded

  
Smooth Operator
Member (Idle past 3571 days)
Posts: 630
Joined: 07-24-2009


Message 85 of 142 (552308)
03-28-2010 6:09 AM


Some more info on both alpha and beta accelerated decay.

quote:
The group has investigated this hypothesis by embedding a number of radioactive nuclei inside metals and then cooling the metal to a few degrees kelvin. As expected, they observed a longer half-life for the electron capture of beryllium-7 and shorter half-lives for β+-decay in sodium-22 (Eur. Phys. J. A 28 251) and α-decay in polonium-210. They are now investigating the α-decay of radium-226, a hazardous component of spent nuclear fuel with a half-life of 1600 years. Rolfs calculates that this half-life could be reduced to as little as a year and at the very least to 100 years, and believes that the half-lives of all other hazardous alpha emitters within nuclear waste could be shortened by similar amounts.
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/25446

As you can clearly see here, there are mechanisms that exist that can bot increase and decrease half-lifes of radioactive materials. And for both alpha and beta decay.

And one more article that talks about accelerated alpha decay in stars.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1971Ap&SS..11..451P

Not only that, but it has been shown by the Oklo reaction, that even U238 alpha decay rates can vary by at least an order of magnitude.Oklo reaction was a naturally occuring nuclear reaction. Therefore it shows that even in nature when nobody is tempering with the radioactive material it can increase it's alpha decay rate. Specifically the U238 that you have been talking about.

quote:
Although this change in well depth is slight, nevertheless at certain critical values the number of nodes in the wavefunction can change precipitously, with a corresponding change in other quantities. We show that even these small variations could allow the U-238 half-life to vary by more than one order of magnitude.
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2003APS..SES.HB007C

Edited by Smooth Operator, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by cavediver, posted 03-28-2010 6:45 AM Smooth Operator has not yet responded
 Message 87 by Admin, posted 03-28-2010 10:09 AM Smooth Operator has responded

  
Smooth Operator
Member (Idle past 3571 days)
Posts: 630
Joined: 07-24-2009


Message 88 of 142 (552353)
03-28-2010 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Admin
03-28-2010 10:09 AM


WHY?

LOL, I gotta hear this one...

Oh, an could you please make a list of threads I'm allowed to participate in?

Edited by Smooth Operator, : No reason given.

Edited by Smooth Operator, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Admin, posted 03-28-2010 10:09 AM Admin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Admin, posted 03-28-2010 10:43 AM Smooth Operator has not yet responded

  
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